Board index » delphi » Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Re: Cat among the pigeons......


2004-07-16 09:46:29 AM
delphi242
"Harry Van Tassell" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
blogs.msdn.com/somasegar. They seem to be taking this blogging thing
seriously.<g>
The account of the Beta 1 build on his blog is interesting.
 
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Phil,
Quote
>www.delphibasics.co.uk/ from what I can see is probably a perfect
>start for VB'ers.
...where did that come from?
Don't really care, I have bought my copy. I learned more about the internals of
Delphi in 30 minutes there than I did in the last year using on-line help ~
and it didn't include banging my head against the monitor while I chant 'why
can't I find it, why can not I find it ...'. Maybe that flat spot will pop out
again.
It belongs in the box (guess that is on the CD/DVD these days)!
--
Dave Keighan
Posted using XanaNews 1.16.3.1
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Yes, that is a very good site. it is one we've found as well.
I agree with your assessment that it would be very helpful to put some
language xref into something like that.
It's something that should be in a "package", IMHO. There are a lot of
GoodThings like this around, they're just not organize and boiled down for
those folks assessing the move.
Dan
"Jim Rowell" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

"Nick Hodges [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:40f6e44d$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>
>In other words, I have one: MsgBox -->ShowMessage;
>
>Oh, wait, two!: DoEvents -->Application.ProcessMessages. <g>
>
>Any more?
>
>--
>Nick Hodges -- TeamB
>Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
>Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick


www.delphibasics.co.uk/ from what I can see is probably a perfect
start for VB'ers.
If this sort of thing had a VB(Visual Basic) x-ref added to it, and perhaps a good intro
into using
the Delphi Help system, I'd think it would be just the ticket.

I didn't come from VB(Visual Basic) but DelphiBasics did play a big part in my getting
started. It needs to be enlarged somewhat but it is perfect in it is layout
and material for a newcomer as a quickstart without frustration.

Jim Rowell


 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Jim Rowell writes:
Quote
www.delphibasics.co.uk/
Very nice site indeed.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

I R T writes:
Quote
I eventually ended up writing it in Quintus Prolog.
And your lecturer look at you with a knowing nod when you mentioned
/that/?
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

"Dave Keighan" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Phil,

>>www.delphibasics.co.uk/ from what I can see is probably a
perfect
>>start for VB'ers.

>...where did that come from?

Don't really care, I have bought my copy. I learned more about the internals
of
Delphi in 30 minutes there than I did in the last year using on-line help
~
and it didn't include banging my head against the monitor while I chant
'why
can't I find it, why can not I find it ...'. Maybe that flat spot will pop
out
again.

It belongs in the box (guess that is on the CD/DVD these days)!

--
Dave Keighan
Posted using XanaNews 1.16.3.1
Glad it helped. For completeness, I should probably add that
www.delphi.about.com is the next step. Doesn't really matter what answer a
beginner needs, it is there. There are a ton of great sites but those 2 are
all a newcomer needs to start out with. After that, you're armed to the
teeth and ready to explore.
Jim Rowell
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Jim,
Quote
Glad it helped. For completeness, I should probably add that
www.delphi.about.com is the next step. Doesn't really matter what answer a
beginner needs, it is there. There are a ton of great sites but those 2 are
all a newcomer needs to start out with. After that, you're armed to the
teeth and ready to explore.
Many thanks Jim your post has helped a lot. I will get a ton of use from the
down-loadable Delphi Basics site I purchased. I have spent some time already
delphi.about. Missed the deadline on the Tic-Tac-Toe challenge (sheesh, that
was 15 months ago) by a couple of days - was away. I still play the game I
built from time to time, I learned a lot with it.
--
Dave Keighan
Posted using XanaNews 1.16.3.1
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Price isn't the primary factor but it is a decisive factor,
and coming out with an academic price that covers only shipping
and handling or download costs would cost Borland nil, but would
generate a lot of good will, and a lot more awareness of Delphi
than _all_ of Borland's marketing budget during the last 5 years.
IT has to be a really aggressive pricing, and not the half-hearted
effort we saw before, which yes, were just a waste of time.
Cover distribution costs, no more.
Better 100 schools were Delphi is taught than a couple of adverti{*word*224}ts
in a magazine. You've got to realize that Delphi and Pascal are
essentially _unknown_ to the new generation, they are not even known
as alternatives. Youngsters know C++, Java, VB, PHP heard about COBOL and
Fortran, but Pascal or Delphi? Nope. Even Python and LUA have a higher
popularity.
Z
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Quote
You hang out in a different crowd than I do.
Probably. I know very few large scale apps that are purely VB,
most VB(Visual Basic) uses I see and know of are for small scale utilities,
processes, helpers, services or UI wrappers here or there:
in other words a lot of scattered uses, where VB(Visual Basic) is essentially
used as an UI generator for some "real stuff" written in other
languages (being it C++, Oracle DB, etc)
Quote
No, VB(Visual Basic) will give them more language changes.
I don't think so, it is much easier to port to VB.Net than to port
to Delphi.Net, essentially because the code you're starting with in
VB was simpler, already garbage-collected and did not have the
complexities you can encounter in Delphi code.
Quote
They promised us they wouldn't do it again after VB4, but here we are again
(again).
Can't say much, ported a VB3 app to VB6 a few years ago (about 150k lines),
it was a two-day job... I don't call that a difficult port.
Quote
It is a platform upon which applications are built. The platform upon which
applicatiosn were built in Windows and OS/2 were also runtimes...
No, there is a fundamental difference: a runtime is specific to a language
or development environment, and OS layer isn't. DotNet is specific to DotNet
applications, and can be fully bypassed by other applications that run on
the very same O/S, applications that can achieve the _same_ results.
Quote
MS has simply separated the pieces... that way they can charge a toll for
connecting the apps to the iron no matter where they want to take it.
Aye, true enough.
Quote
See above. Windows, for example, ran on DOS. They called it an OS, but it
wasn't. In fact, truth be told, it was really a program that spent its
time calling subroutines (apps) with parameters (messages).
Yes, it wasn't because it could be bypassed (at least on 386+), the only
true OS layer was the BIOS in those days.
Quote
"Where do they want to go today"?
Hiking in the mountains ;)
Quote
Not so for legacy code. What's more, not everybody used (or agrees on)
"good practices".
Especially for legacy code. One typical examples are the strings.
Accessing individual characters in a string as an array used to be
the fastest way to change characters f.i., in DelphiNet that is no
longer the case since a different string is recreated each time
(which means your application can now freeze "forever" on what was
instantaneous).
Similarly, array accesses in general, or passing parameters as
'const' used to be efficient, in DelphiNet they are inefficient.
There are many, many similar pitfalls, which make DelphiNet similar
to Delphi in syntax only, but in spirit and essence, it is a completely
different creature.
Quote
Delphi is pretty much written in Delphi so I assume one or two of them
understand it.
As far as I understood, this is no longer the case, the Delphi 8 IDE
was said to be a mix of different languages, and judging from the blogging
habits of some core Delphi developpers, I guess at least some of them
are now using primarily C#.
So that is an advantage that is on the wane, not to forget that a good chunk
of the compilation and library development work is no longer handled by Borland
for Delphi.Net, but by MS engineers that certainly don't use Delphi.
Z
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

zedd in <40f77afa$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
Better 100 schools were Delphi is taught than a couple of
adverti{*word*224}ts in a magazine.
First off (I need to say this because of what I am going to say next),
this is all my opinion. I am all for increasing Borland's efforts to get
Delphi as part of a learning curriculum. it is a great language for
learning programming, and a great language for productive development
after you've learned. Delphi is still one of my all-time favorite
languages.
Ok, now for a small dose of reality: students and fresh hires out of
college do not dictate what languages or products the company they work
for chooses for development. Those days are gone, back in the late 80s
and early 90s.
So, while the IT industry was built by individuals who had vision and
passion for their favorite tools and had the power (because there was
no one to gainsay them) to choose their favorite development tool for
business use, the IT industry is now run by the corporation, not the
individual. And the corporation will go with what is perceived as the
"safe" bet, not the best bet.
The BEST thing Borland can do to make any and all of its products
successful is to achieve a reputation as a solid, high quality and
reliability company that produces excellent software development
products for the entire application lifecyle.
Fortunately, (while the too-intimate experiences here might indicate
otherwise) Borland does still have a broad industry reputation as a
company that produces high-quality and innovative products. I hope that
reputation only grows stronger in the future.
For Borland to increase its perceived reliability, we must have better
communication with our customers. We need to tell them what we're
working on, what bugs they can expect to be fixed in the near future,
and give them at least an 18-month roadmap. Until such time as Borland
starts telling customers and potential customers the information they
need to know to make business decisions based on Borland's product
plans. In an information vaccuum, no one can hear the customer leave.
Developer Relations (my organization, which includes David Intersimone,
Christine Ellis, Anders Ohlsson, Andrea Ginsberg, Karen Giles and
myself) all lobby non-stop and loudly (internally) for a public roadmap
to provide our customers. As with everything else worthwhile we have
achieved at Borland, it will take a long time and a lot of campaigning.
We don't give up until the answer is "Yes." Sometimes it has taken 5
years or more to get the "Yes" answer. Although the public doesn't see
it, we get closer to a "Yes" answer on the public roadmap all the time.
In summary, Borland's success is tied much more closely to how the
company and products are perceived in the business world, rather than
the educational world. While it is important to have "grass roots"
support as well as corporate mindshare, corporate mindshare is where
Borland needs to get better. We've always been good at getting the
"grass roots" support. These days, it is easy enough to get grass roots
support: as long as your product is tolerably good, just make it free.
But that doesn't keep you in business for very long.
This is a mushy issue, and please don't be an extremist when reading
this post. There are many factors and perceptions I am not touching on
in this message, but I don't have the time to write the novel-length
message that would be required.
Just consider this the reduced-fat, low-carb, infomercial version of a
much longer post that could be summarized to this Cliff notes version.
;)
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
BorCon2004, all info in one place! info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
Unofficial information overload: blogs.borland.com
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

John Kaster (Borland) in <40f78473$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
and give them at least an 18-month roadmap. Until such time as Borland
starts telling customers and potential customers the information they
need to know to make business decisions based on Borland's product
plans ...
(forgot part here)
... it will continue to be difficult for a developer to sell the idea
of using a Borland product to his manager.
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
BorCon2004, all info in one place! info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
Unofficial information overload: blogs.borland.com
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Nick Hodges [TeamB] writes:
Quote
I don't think it would be that hard to create a unit called
VBCallsInDelphi.pas that would simply wrap up the names that a VB
developer would be used to and call the proper Delphi routines. I
actually think that would be a pretty darn good idea.
I think it might be a good start but I also think it doesn't address
one of the toughest parts of moving from one language to another - the
question of 'How do I ....'
For example, when moving from Delphi Win32 to C# .NET, one of the
questions I had was 'How do I replicate the functionality of
TStringList'? As I am sure we can all see, a simple set of translated
procedure calls wouldn't help here but it is a situation regularly faced
when moving languages.
--
Derek Davidson
www.enterpriseblue.com
For the world's EASIEST Help Desk software
Now Verified for Microsoft Windows Server 2003
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Dan Barclay writes:
Quote
Can you make those damned ";" and ":=" go away too? <vbg>
We could, but then we'd have to introduce "_" and "==" :-)
--
Derek Davidson
www.enterpriseblue.com
For the world's EASIEST Help Desk software
Now Verified for Microsoft Windows Server 2003
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Dave Keighan writes:
Quote
Maybe a help-file that simply brought up the right Delphi topic
searching on the VB(Visual Basic) equivalent keyword.
Yes - I think that has to be the right approach.
--
Derek Davidson
www.enterpriseblue.com
For the world's EASIEST Help Desk software
Now Verified for Microsoft Windows Server 2003
 

Re: Cat among the pigeons......

Jim Rowell writes:
Quote
www.delphibasics.co.uk/ from what I can see is probably a
perfect start for VB'ers.
Neat site! I just learned about Ctrl-E (Incremental search in the
Delphi IDE). There's also a great tip for shortcuts to bookmarks in
Mozilla browsers incl FireFox. Amazing what you can learn :-)
--
Derek Davidson
www.enterpriseblue.com
For the world's EASIEST Help Desk software
Now Verified for Microsoft Windows Server 2003