Board index » delphi » Re: For the morons

Re: For the morons


2006-09-29 02:07:54 AM
delphi201
J. Lee writes:
Quote
The "idiots" I frequently encounter are users that aren't experienced
with Windows. Even though our software requirements state that users
should be familiar with Windows, it seems they are ignored for the
most part.
"Idiots" can be a too general of a term that developers use to also
include the simply ignorant or uneducated. When I use it I dont include
such. I am referring only to the true ones.
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professoinal technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 
 

Re: For the morons

Iman L Crawford writes:
Quote
>What is a drop-down menu?
>What is a edit control?

I support a windows app that has been used for the last eight years by
our sales force. They have all used windows during that time and I
still have to explain what a drop-down menu, main menu, or edit box.
Those are true idiot canidates. :)
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professoinal technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: For the morons

Iman L Crawford writes:
Quote
I support a windows app that has been used for the last eight years by
our sales force. They have all used windows during that time and I
still have to explain what a drop-down menu, main menu, or edit box.
My profession was something very different from programming, when I
bought my first PC in December 1994, I had never touched a computer
before. I did not sleep that night when I first brought it home ;-)
In the morning, I already knew more about Windows and using a computer
than someone I often help (an {*word*62}) who has had a PC for 5 years.
He stubbornly calls everything a "box", regardless of it being a menu,
drop down list, edit box, a dialog box or the application window
itself.. everything is a "box". Imagine giving him telephone support..
The most fantastic thing, he is on the Internet all the time, still
only has a remote idea about what a "file" is..
--
Ingvar Nilsen
www.ingvarius.com
 

Re: For the morons

I.P. Nichols writes:
Quote
>Those are true idiot canidates. :)

Take that back right now - you can not talk about my wife that way! ;-)
Immediate family members of developers (well maybe not VB(Visual Basic) developers)
are automatically exempted. My wife has proven challenging to educate
on certain computer related topics, but right now I would be happy if she
just would close the kitchen cabinets which are just above my eye
level, in my blind spot and stick out just enough for me to dent my
forhead in the corner.
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professoinal technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: For the morons

"Chad Z. Hower" writes:
Quote
... but right now I would be happy if she
just would close the kitchen cabinets which are just above my eye
level, in my blind spot and stick out just enough for me to dent my
forhead in the corner.
If you haven't had one in the past few years, it sounds like you are a
candidate for a field-of-vision test.
 

Re: For the morons

I.P. Nichols writes:
Quote
If you haven't had one in the past few years, it sounds like you are
a candidate for a field-of-vision test.
Thanks - but its not really a true blindspot in that sense. I just tend
to be lookig down at things on the counter while moving toward it...
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professoinal technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: For the morons

"Ingvar Nilsen" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in news:451c128d$1
@newsgroups.borland.com:
Quote
Imagine giving him telephone support..
I don't have to. I support people like that all the time.
Quote
The most fantastic thing, he is on the Internet all the time, still
only has a remote idea about what a "file" is..
Most of the guys I work with don't know to enter the url in the address
bar instead of the search bar.
--
Iman
 

Re: For the morons

Quote
I support a windows app that has been used for the last eight years by
our sales force. They have all used windows during that time and I
still have to explain what a drop-down menu, main menu, or edit box.
It's simple: they don't care, and you're using technical terminology that bears
little relationship to the everyday meaning of the words involved: a menu is a
list of stuff to eat, editing is printing, windows are things that open to the
outside, a box is a volume with 6 sides, etc.
Developers rarely realise how much of a sublanguage they use, immersed as they
are in it: they use english words, but they aren't speaking english ;)
Eric
 

Re: For the morons

Jeff Buckley writes:
Quote
Some time ago (before release D7) I had diner with Chad Hower.
Me, my wife, Chad and his wife. We didn't talk about programming too much but at a certain moment Chad's wife asked us what's the differnce between mine and Chad's business. Well Chad answered: "I develop software for software developers, he's developing for the morons".

Mostly we talk here about what's important for us, developers but eventually all we do will end up at the desk of the morons, and they don't care about /native/.net/ntier/which db/IDE/ or whatever. They just want a fast/good looking UI/stable piece of software at minimum cost making their life easier.

This whole Subject/Thread is a very good read and one all developers
should have tatooed on the inside of their eyelids.
Hands-up anybody who has read this and feels it has *never* applied to
them. ;)
<nothing moves, dust drifts over the floor, the sun beats down>
:-) my hand kept down as well..
 

Re: For the morons

Eric Grange writes:
Quote
It's simple: they don't care, and you're using technical terminology
that bears little relationship to the everyday meaning of the words
involved: a menu is a list of stuff to eat, editing is printing,
Anyone with any reasonable intellect after 8 years in front of a
computer should know what menu is, or a button.
Heck I don't know what half the stuff is on the vaccuum cleaner here,
but hell if I had a job where I used it every day for 8 years you can
be assured long ago I'd have figured out the BASIC names of the
common parts.
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professoinal technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: For the morons

There is an ANYKEY on a keyboard? :)
Vladimir Grigoriev
"J. Lee" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
The "idiots" I frequently encounter are users that aren't experienced with
Windows. Even though our software requirements state that users should be
familiar with Windows, it seems they are ignored for the most part.

What is a drop-down menu?
What is a edit control?

Makes me think of that hilarious tech support story about the support
person telling the user to pack up the computer and send it back to the
manufacturer because "you're too stupid to own a computer."
 

Re: For the morons

Quote
Heck I don't know what half the stuff is on the vaccuum cleaner here,
but hell if I had a job where I used it every day for 8 years you can
be assured long ago I'd have figured out the BASIC names of the
common parts.
I highly doubt it, from computer parts to CPU level stuff, from drivers
to databases, the developers that can name all these right (let alone
understand how they really work) are few and far between.
Also, I am sure there are many things you've been using for years
everyday, from which you don't the exact names: visible car parts,
visible fridge parts, visible washing machine parts, most of your
houseware, most of your clothes, foodstuff...
For these you know a common name, but would most likely be hard pressed
to understand specialists talking about it... Yet that is just what
developers are doing when talking to end users: they use the technical
terms, rather than the common names (to learn the common names, just ask
any non-developer).
A fun experiment is to take your average developer, place him in a
workshop, and ask him to sort screws from bolts, select a router, or
indicate amidst the bits which ones are flush trim bits...
Eric
 

Re: For the morons

Eric Grange writes:
Quote
I highly doubt it, from computer parts to CPU level stuff, from
drivers to databases, the developers that can name all these right
(let alone understand how they really work) are few and far between.
I'm not talking about deep level stuff. My 10 year old son knows what a
menu is on the computer. Didnt take him long - an {*word*62} using a
computer for 8 years should know basics, yet many don't.
Quote
Also, I am sure there are many things you've been using for years
everyday, from which you don't the exact names: visible car parts,
visible fridge parts, visible washing machine parts, most of your
houseware, most of your clothes, foodstuff... For these you know a
If they were parts I used - I know them. Dont mix up internals with
external parts. Even my wife knows what the compressor is in the
fridge, but she might not know internal parts of it.
Your examples assume I'd know the internals of the vaccuum -but
these users after 8 years of cleaing houses cant identify the hose and
refer to is "The big long thing"
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professoinal technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: For the morons

Quote
I'm not talking about deep level stuff. My 10 year old son knows what a
menu is on the computer. Didnt take him long - an {*word*62} using a
computer for 8 years should know basics, yet many don't.
If they could live and do their job without knowing it, then it is not
basic stuff, it is just infrequently used stuff, icing on the cake stuff.
As for your son, well, it doesn't count given who is dad is: of course
he's gonna be immersed in developer speak everyday :)
Quote
If they were parts I used - I know them.
Do you know their technical name... or just the usual name?
Quote
Dont mix up internals with external parts. Even my wife knows
what the compressor is in the fridge, but she might not know
internal parts of it.
The computer equivalent of knowing what the compressor is, is being able
to tell apart the screen from the keyboard. But does she know the names
of the compressor parts? Even just the external ones? And do you?
If you/she were told to touch the exhaust port of the compressor to see
if it is hot or cold, would you/she know what to touch?
Quote
Your examples assume I'd know the internals of the vaccuum -but
these users after 8 years of cleaing houses cant identify the hose and
refer to is "The big long thing"
Well, after all those years of house cleaning, do you know the names of
all the vacuum cleaner's tools? Like tell the dusting brush from the
others? And tell dusting brush "subclasses" apart? ;)
Eric
 

Re: For the morons

Eric Grange writes:
Quote
If they could live and do their job without knowing it, then it is not
basic stuff, it is just infrequently used stuff, icing on the cake
stuff. As for your son, well, it doesn't count given who is dad is:
of course he's gonna be immersed in developer speak everyday :)
You are mixing up internals and externals again - a menu is not like
asking someone to know assembly langauge or even what an EXE vs a DLL
is.
How many people get in their car and cannot identify the steering wheel
by name?
Quote
>If they were parts I used - I know them.

Do you know their technical name... or just the usual name?
I know their common names of parts I use. And a menu is a common name -
not just a technical name. In fact it came from the non technical
domain. My son can identify things with better resolution than
"everything is a box".
Quote
The computer equivalent of knowing what the compressor is, is being
able to tell apart the screen from the keyboard. But does she know
I used the compressor as a deeper example. A compressor is WAY beyond a
menu. A menu is like not being able to identify the freezer portion -
but instead "thats the really cold part".
Quote
Well, after all those years of house cleaning, do you know the names
of all the vacuum cleaner's tools? Like tell the dusting brush from
the others? And tell dusting brush "subclasses" apart? ;)
If you ever visted me before I was married, you would know why I don't
know all the names. I dont clean... But these users we are talking
about are the equivalent of 8 year experienced house maids who identify
the vaccuum parts as "That rope thing that connects to the wall", and
"That long thing that sucks", and "the hole where all the dirt goes".
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professoinal technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net