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[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)


2005-01-31 09:04:31 PM
delphi281
<quote>
Dennis,
I hope this reaches you - I had to go onto your
delphi.flashblogger.com site to find your email address.
As I no longer post on the non-tech this is my best shot.
There is an excellent summary of MS's 64-bit technology with lots of links
etc at this blog page, hope it is useful in your current endevors..
weblogs.asp.net/stoey/archive/2005/01/27/361880.aspx
--Hairy
</quote>
 
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

Dennis Landi writes:
Quote
There is an excellent summary of MS's 64-bit technology with lots of
links etc at this blog page, hope it is useful in your current
endevors..
weblogs.asp.net/stoey/archive/2005/01/27/361880.aspx
I especially like this quote, which is from Craig McMurtry actually,
but priceless nonetheless--
"64-bit computing is here today."
"Quite literally: this is a 64-bit laptop, running a 64-bit operating
system. And if you want to buy a 64-bit system, well, it is dead easy:
go to www.AlienWare.com , and order yourself a rig for home or for the
office, and choose from among various 64-bit processors you can have
installed in them."
"So, 64-bit computing is not off in the future: it is here now. And in
a few months, 64-bit hardware is going to be the norm."
----
I just found two new blogs to subscribe to. ;)
Will
--
Want native support in Delphi for AMD64/EM64T? Vote here--
qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

Dennis,
Quote
There is an excellent summary of MS's 64-bit technology with lots of links
etc at this blog page, hope it is useful in your current endevors..
weblogs.asp.net/stoey/archive/2005/01/27/361880.aspx
Interesting quote for the "but even /Micrsoft/ doesn't support coding for
64-bit yet" faction:
"In addition, you can also develop right now for 64-bit Itanium using the
Platform SDK which includes 64-bit versions of MFC, ATL, C Runtime
Libraries, compiler, linker etc. So in summary, right now if you wanted to
develop (and/or run a 64-bit Itanium version of XP or Windows 2003) to the
64-bit Itanium based architecture you can absolutely do that as Microsoft
has support for Itanium in both Windows XP and Windows 2003, as well as a
64-bit version of the platform SDK."
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

Nice bit about the 16 bit "support" in the end... I guess it means
we'll still see 16 bit installers for decades ^_^
Eric
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

Hi Dennis,
Very interesting reading.
---
Roy M Klever
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

"marc hoffman" wrote
Quote
Interesting quote for the "but even /Micrsoft/ doesn't support coding for
64-bit yet" faction:

"[...] So in summary, right now if you wanted to
develop (and/or run a 64-bit Itanium version of XP or Windows 2003)
to the 64-bit Itanium based architecture you can absolutely do that ..."
And why would someone want to do that? it is a dead end already
www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/windows/story/0,10801,98716,00.html
bobD
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

Bob,
Quote
And why would someone want to do that? it is a dead end already
www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/windows/story/0,10801,98716,00.html
It's not. Read more closely; this only applies to the /workstation/ OS, not
the server OS. Arguably, Itanium is very irrelevant for the workstation
market opposed to AMD x64 at this time and for the near future, so it makes
perfect sense that MS would concentrate on x64 for Windows XP.
This does not change the fact that Itanium is supported by Windows Server
2003, and, more importantly, that Microsoft /does/ provide full support for
writing 64 bit application for Itanium at this time (and it is save to assume
will do the same with the updated Platform SDK, once x64 based windows
versions are released), facts that were disputed just a few threads further
down.
What's more, I'd assume that 64-bit C++ code written for Itanium now
will compile smoothly against x64 as well, once the x64 compiler is
released; so writing 64-bit code for Itanium nor is not a dead end, even if
Itanium would fall completely off the face of the earth.
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

Will DeWitt Jr. writes:
Quote
"64-bit computing is here today."
A point that /no one/ disputes, and one that I openly, freely, and
happily agree with and accept.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

marc hoffman writes:
Quote
"In addition, you can also develop right now for 64-bit Itanium using
the Platform SDK
Itanium? Sure. Who wants it?
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it."
-- Groucho Marx
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

As others have pointed out this has to do with the client not the server.
To see what can be done with IA-64 check out;
tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp
tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp
Oh and if it were dead it would seem like a waste of time to be delivering a
version of .Net Fx that runs on it later this year.
-Euan
"Bob Dawson" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
"marc hoffman" wrote
>Interesting quote for the "but even /Micrsoft/ doesn't support coding
for
>64-bit yet" faction:
>
>"[...] So in summary, right now if you wanted to
>develop (and/or run a 64-bit Itanium version of XP or Windows 2003)
>to the 64-bit Itanium based architecture you can absolutely do that ..."

And why would someone want to do that? it is a dead end already

www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/windows/story/0,10801,98716,00.html

bobD


 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

Will DeWitt Jr. writes:
Quote
I especially like this quote, which is from Craig McMurtry actually,
but priceless nonetheless--

"64-bit computing is here today."
I expect no-one is doubting that.
Forget the "Borland knows better" argument, since that seems abhorrent
to you.. but before they can make one, it needs to be shown that they
will be able to make money from it. Their own research says "No".
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

"Euan Garden" wrote
Quote
As others have pointed out this has to do with the client not the server.
I stand corrected.
bobD
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

"Dave Nottage [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in
message news:XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
Quote
Will DeWitt Jr. writes:


I expect no-one is doubting that.

Forget the "Borland knows better" argument, since that seems abhorrent
to you.. but before they can make one, it needs to be shown that they
will be able to make money from it. Their own research says "No".
I don't believe a word of that. I believe that went full-tilt into .NET
prematurely. I don't believe they are making any money on their .NET
offerings. I think they fooled themselves into thinking that they needed to
jump into .NET fast before seeing what shape .NET would actually take in
reality; even though its pretty easy to see .NET won't start making any
serious in-roads before Longhorn sees the light of day. I think they let
their "connections" with some parties at MS cloud their judgement.
I don't believe they ever seriously considered the significance of the
appearance of the AMD64 processor as something "new and different" that
would have radical consequences in the computer industry, sweeping the world
in a couple of years. Nope they missed it. Period.
And we sure as hell don't need corporate syncophants to give us the party
line on how Borland knows best. They patently don't.
Nobody is using Delphi for .NET.
The *smart* .NET offering would have been an ASP.NET offering to start with;
while they went full tilt on supporting an AMD/Intel 64-bit compatible
platform to give their loyal natively compiled customer-base a leg up on the
competition. You want to sell software? Then give your customers something
they NEED; and a reason to buy.
Who in their right mind thinks giving us a DIFFERENT IDE, that nobody asked
for, would be a savvy business decision? Yeah, yeah, the refactoring is
nice. Put it in D7. Need a different pallette bar? The the CompBar from
daGeek was out a couple of years before the one in D2005 which is the same
design.
The bottom line is that if Borland could have come out with a fully RAD
Win64-bit compiler THIS YEAR; it would be leading the pack and raising
eyebrows throughout the industry. Most of the (paid) delphi development
done these days is N-Tier. This is the delphi market for 64-bit
applications. Their loyal customer base would be screaming their praise and
totally receptive to Borland's published road map showing their customers
how Borland planned to get their customers to Longhorn. Yes, ladies and
gents, Longhorn is the goal. .NET has been nothing but a rapidly mutating,
highly unstable marketing concept. When Longhorn arrives; .NET wil have its
proper context; and, perhaps a reason to live without the incubator of the
MS marketing machine.
-- d
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Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

"Dave Nottage [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in
message news:XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
Quote
Will DeWitt Jr. writes:

>I especially like this quote, which is from Craig McMurtry actually,
>but priceless nonetheless--
>
>"64-bit computing is here today."

I expect no-one is doubting that.

Forget the "Borland knows better" argument, since that seems abhorrent
to you.. but before they can make one, it needs to be shown that they
will be able to make money from it. Their own research says "No".

Really? An absolute 'No'? I thought we didn't know what their research
says, or what they are developing next. I thought they were taking a wait
and see approach, but if you know what their market research says, then
please do clue us in.
Brent S.
 

Re:[64-bit Delphi] A msg from Hairy (van Tassel)

Brent S. writes:
Quote
>Forget the "Borland knows better" argument, since that seems
>abhorrent to you.. but before they can make one, it needs to be
>shown that they will be able to make money from it. Their own
>research says "No".
>
Really? An absolute 'No'? I thought we didn't know what their
research says..
Read Danny Thorpe's blogs and posts. AFAIK, it is still the current
position. Of course, that may change in the future as the 64-bit market
grows.
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]