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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005


2004-10-21 03:49:23 AM
delphi140
Dan Barclay writes:
Quote
They turn off R&D then maximize short term sales
and profits with marketing and cost control until it dies.
Which Borland product does this describe?
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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

Nick Hodges [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Dan Barclay writes:

>They turn off R&D then maximize short term sales
>and profits with marketing and cost control until it dies.

Which Borland product does this describe?
TASM. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth."
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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

"Nick Hodges [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Dan Barclay writes:

>They turn off R&D then maximize short term sales
>and profits with marketing and cost control until it dies.

Which Borland product does this describe?
None that I know of, why do you think I indicated that it did?
Did you miss the part about: "Develpment still seems to be very active so
that clearly isn't the case with Delphi, so it
leads me to believe it is just a marketeer mis-step of some sort."
Or the part about: " The end result can be the same."
???
Dan
 

Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

Dan Barclay writes:
Quote
None that I know of, why do you think I indicated that it did?
I didn't -- that is why I asked. ;-)
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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
Applies to you. Applies to me. But not to the majority as far as my
memory is correct from the school time.
Probably. I enjoyed learning French, though. It was then I formed a bad
opinion of English. When I started learning Malaysian, I was again
reminded constantly of that opinion.
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Dave Nottage [TeamB]
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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:54:04 +0200, "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]"
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
ozbear writes:

>Spoken like a hobbyist rather than a professional.

Do you still program in the language you started with?

>In the Real World, things are different.

How so? I know Delphi propgrammers wh ostarted with C++ or something
else, I know C# and Java programmers who started with Delphi, etc.

So how are things in the Real World, according to you?

Reading for comprehension and not quoting so selectively would
have revealed this. If one programs for a living, rather than
as a hobby, then it matters little what one is "comfortable"
with (your use of the word comfortable).
What matters is what one can make a living with. Sometimes these
coincide, sometimes they don't. A hobbyist can choose whatever
they like.
Oz
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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

ozbear writes:
Quote
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:54:04 +0200, "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]"
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:

>ozbear writes:
>
>>Spoken like a hobbyist rather than a professional.
>
>Do you still program in the language you started with?
>
>>In the Real World, things are different.
>
>How so? I know Delphi propgrammers wh ostarted with C++ or something
>else, I know C# and Java programmers who started with Delphi, etc.
>
>So how are things in the Real World, according to you?

Reading for comprehension and not quoting so selectively would
have revealed this.
I quoted your entire message. That is hardly selectively.
Quote
If one programs for a living, rather than
as a hobby, then it matters little what one is "comfortable"
with (your use of the word comfortable).
I guess this depends on the situation. Some may have or take the
freedom to use what they think is best, others may have to use what
employer or customer tell them.
Quote
What matters is what one can make a living with. Sometimes these
coincide, sometimes they don't. A hobbyist can choose whatever
they like.
That is why it is always good to be proficient in a few languages.
Still, that does not answer what I asked: do you still program in your
first language? Do you take jobs in a language with which you are not
comfortable (i.e. more than just familiar)? I personally would only
take jobs in Delphi, C# or C++, since I know these well enough to be
comfortable with them. I'd not take any of the other languages. I
can hardly imagine being productive in a language I would have to learn
first.
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Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

ozbear writes:
Quote
If one programs for a living, rather than
as a hobby, then it matters little what one is "comfortable"
with (your use of the word comfortable).
FWIW, it matters a lot to me. Whether I work on a project that uses a
language I am more comfortable with, is another story.
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

Dave Nottage [TeamB] in <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
Probably. I enjoyed learning French, though. It was then I formed a
bad opinion of English. When I started learning Malaysian, I was again
reminded constantly of that opinion.
Learning Mandarin pointed out the many inefficiencies of other
languages I have dabbled in. English is, of course, the worst offender
I'm aware of.
But you should expect that from languages designed by committee, spoken
or programming. ;)
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Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

Quote
Just for fun, let's consider the good old '+' operator.
Yes, you're right. Other places the syntax is the same is for some of
the operators. Only pretty trivial examples though, which I think was my
point.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_______________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.co.uk
_______________________________________________
 

Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

Quote
It's just plain surreal and denotes a lack of touch with real-world
notions of what is really a "breaking" change: I'd happily trade
hundreds of such syntax-breaking changes to avoid a single logic
or behaviour-breaking one.
Eric, you're still completely missing my point.
I was trying to ask what the problem was. You get the required
functionality, and nobody's code gets broken. Everybody wins. What's the
big deal if the reserved words used in C# and Delphi are different? The
actual syntax of the expression would still be different even if foreach
was used in both languages.
Of course there are more important things to worry about. Which is
another way of describing the point I am trying to make. Why worry about
"foreach"? it is trivial.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_______________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.co.uk
_______________________________________________
 

Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

Quote
Excellent post-- well said and fully agree.
You're missing the point I am trying to make Will. Of course there are
more important things to worry about. that is exactly what I have been
trying to say.
The good thing here is that you get the feature, **and** nobody's code
gets broken. Everybody wins.
The syntax would have been different in Delphi even if it had used
"foreach". I just can not see what all the fuss is about.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_______________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.co.uk
_______________________________________________
 

Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

Quote
It's the same in both C# and Delphi. Hmmm. Wonder if Borland had
a problem with that? But I digress.
Errr, yes, I think you do :-)
Quote
Now look at operator overloading.
Why?
It does prove my point that syntax is often quite different between the
two languages, but apart from that I don't quite know why you brought
the topic up.
If you're starting a discussion on which language has the more sensible
constructs, then go right ahead :-) it is a bit moot though, since we
don't get to design either one :-)
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_______________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.co.uk
_______________________________________________
 

Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:16:52 +0200, "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]"
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
<snip>
Quote

That is why it is always good to be proficient in a few languages.
Agreed.

Still, that does not answer what I asked: do you still program in your
first language? Do you take jobs in a language with which you are not
comfortable (i.e. more than just familiar)?
No I don't. My first programming language was Fortran II on an
IBM 1130 (approximately 30+ years ago). Neither the platform
nor the language is currently in commercial production.
As to your second question, I am unable to be certain what you mean,
so I can answer only in terms of what I think you might mean:
I have language preferences, primarily in the Algol-derived
family. When it comes to putting food on the table my comfort
level is irrelevent. Proficiency and dollars/hour are about all
that matter...proficiency from the employer's viewpoint and
dollars/hour from mine.
Oz
--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
 

Re: Borland snubbing out the hobbyist programmers with Delphi 2005

ozbear writes:
Quote
Proficiency and dollars/hour are about all
that matter...proficiency from the employer's viewpoint and
dollars/hour from mine.
My "comfortable" more or less covers your "proficiency". I think I
meant the same.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"
-- Groucho Marx