Board index » delphi » Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?


2004-11-06 06:43:58 AM
delphi200
Captain,
Quote
But you said earlier that Chrome helps with native compilation. That is
not
true. Chrome creates .NET intermediate code, but it can't be used to
create code that will run natively on Win32. Having Chrome in your copy of
VS.NET does not bring you any closer to Object Pascal on native Win32 than
any of the the built-in languages you get with VS.NET.
well. with Chrome and the bundled XenoCode, you can statically link the CLR
and technically create a .exe that runs under Win32, without a .NET
framework installed ;-)
--
marc hoffman
Chief Architect, .NET
RemObjects Software
www.chromesville.com
 
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

"John Kaster (Borland)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Chris Burrows in <418af6ce$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:

>As long as the situation remains where you can not mix VCL forms with
>WinForms this is just a dream.

What do you mean here? This situation doesn't exist right now, and
never has.

I'm sorry - you are correct. I will clarify what I mean. What I should have
said was: '.. where you can not put VCL components on WinForms and WinForm
components on VCL forms ....'
An example might help to illustrate what I mean. I have an existing VCL
application that uses ActionManager components for its menu operation but
also uses a DBGrid with a 3rd-party in-memory dataset component amongst
other things. I'd like to *gradually* migrate it to be a pure WinForms
app and eventually eliminate any dependence on the VCL. The first step would
be to replace the DBGrid and 3rd-party dataset with a .NET DataGrid which I
have satisfied myself does everything that I want it to do. The only way I
can see of doing that is to create a new WinForm which then means I have to
create a new menu structure etc. etc.
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
www.cfbsoftware.com
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

"Captain Jake" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

Only if those things are costing you more than the value of the time it
takes to port the app and do all the testing needed to return to the
previous level of confidence and quality.

My experience so far with rewrites from VCL to .NET have been an *improved*
level of confidence and quality.
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
www.cfbsoftware.com
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

"Captain Jake" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
"Jim Cooper" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>
>>A plugin-type compiler for VS, however, targets a completely new market
>
>So you think targeting a market that has already bought a competing
>product is a strategy that will make money? :-)

Hee hee. In the history of marketing there are no big success stories of
goods that were mere addon's to their competitors.

It is amusing to see now freqently those that denigrate the Borland
marketing department come up with markting ideas that are far worse than
anything Borland has ever actually done.

Microsoft have supplied a C# compiler and a WinForms designer to Borland to
be used as an addon to Delphi 2005. Microsoft will benefit from this by
increased exposure of the C# language to Delphi developers.
Having a plug-in Object Pascal / Delphi compiler available in VS might not
convert too many C# developers, but it could convert some from VB. Increased
Delphi exposure and Borland awareness amongst developers can not be a bad
thing.
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
www.cfbsoftware.com
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

I will ask a dumb question:
I have no idea about Chrome's details , and I don't use .Net so.......
....... .. ....
Are there components, like in Delphi with this 'stuff' ?
Reason I ask is I see no component toolbars in screenshots so far..
Also:
Doesn't Delphi have like 3 million thirdparty components on the internet
ever since Delphi 1?
Would we have to re-invent the wheel.. I think Delphi has that advantage,
no?
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

J. Flanot writes:
Quote
Are there components, like in Delphi with this 'stuff' ?
Reason I ask is I see no component toolbars in screenshots so far..
Chrome will support any .NET WinForms component.
Quote
Also:
Doesn't Delphi have like 3 million thirdparty components on the
internet ever since Delphi 1?
Would we have to re-invent the wheel.. I think Delphi has that
advantage, no?
There are already a large number of 3rd party components, both
commercial and shareware/free. This is only likely to increase.
--
Carl
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] writes:
Quote
I've done it with a few apps
So, presumably you're mad <g>. But tell us about these apps, Rudy.
Were they much more complex than fish facts? Because the basic
convention of NOT re-writing an application is a very sound one.
Quote
I have no idea how using C# would have given me any advantage at all.
Well, that is the whole point really. I don't see anyone saying that it
was. But anyway, let's face it, you're hardly an 'independent
observer' here are you? You're hugely biased in favour of Borland and
Borland products.
Quote
... and it is not more powerful than Delphi either.
In what way? Writing CF applications? Working under .NET 1.1, SP1?
Quote
No, thanks. No need for C#. I prefer Delphi and the VCL, also in .NET.
Have you read the latest stuff on Delphi? Delphi 2005 includes C#.
Oh, but wait - I guess you mean the Object Pascal language derivative
that Borland produced? No wonder we're all confused.
But once again, why do you prefer Delphi 8 over C#? Because you get it
free? Or is that just an aside that doesn't matter here? Is it because
you're TeamB and biased or should we discount that, too?
Reminds me of Mrs Merton: "So, Debbie McGee, what was it exactly that
attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels"?
--
Derek Davidson
www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

Derek Davidson writes:
Quote
I wholeheartedly agree. I have seen some pundits here say that
re-coding an application in C# is madness when you have an upgrade
path with D8. To me, it is mad to move an app from Win32 to .NET
anyway. If it works in Win32, let it be.
I've done it with a few apps, and it was
- easy
- gave me all of .NET, so I could extend it easily.
I have no idea how using C# would have given me any advantage at all.
It would have kept me from using the VCL, and it would have made me
rewrite everything, and it is not more powerful than Delphi either.
No, thanks. No need for C#. I prefer Delphi and the VCL, also in .NET.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them."
- Ian L. Fleming (1908-1964)
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

"J. Flanot" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
I will ask a dumb question:
I have no idea about Chrome's details , and I don't use .Net so.......

....... .. ....

Are there components, like in Delphi with this 'stuff' ?
Reason I ask is I see no component toolbars in screenshots so far..

Also:
Doesn't Delphi have like 3 million thirdparty components on the internet
ever since Delphi 1?
Would we have to re-invent the wheel.. I think Delphi has that advantage,
no?
In theory, you can use any .NET component in any .NET project, no matter
what language it is written in. But installing them in IDE is an entirely
different matter. To get design-time wizards and that kind of stuff, you
need to play nice with the IDE itself. This of course will depend on whether
or not the vendor directly supports VS.NET, because if they do they will
have taken the time to write the wizards needed for design-time stuff in
VS.NET.
Some Delphi component vendors are porting their Delphi components to work in
.NET. It is not that difficult to do this port, compared to rewriting the
component in C# for use in VS.NET.
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

"Chris Burrows" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
"Captain Jake" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:418ab266$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>
>Only if those things are costing you more than the value of the time it
>takes to port the app and do all the testing needed to return to the
>previous level of confidence and quality.
>

My experience so far with rewrites from VCL to .NET have been an
*improved*
level of confidence and quality.
Eventually, but not at first*, unless the original was so {*word*99}py that even a
sharp stick in the eye was better.
Also, was the improved level of confidence and quality enough to offset the
cost of the rewrite? It isn't enough simply to have better quality, you have
to have created enough additional user/customer satisfaction that the
economic value of this additional user/customer satisfaction exceeds the
cost of the rewrite. That economic value is determined by the firm's bottom
line and business process, meaning that customers bought enough additional
product to pay for the cost of the rewrite (in the case of commercial
software) or the productivity of the end users was so greatly improved that
they produced and sold enough additional product to pay for the cost of the
rewrite. If you rewrote the app to run in .NET but the firm's bottom line
was unaffected, then all you did was cost the firm money.
*Because good testing and QA takes time.
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

Derek Davidson writes:
Quote
But anyway, let's face it, you're hardly an 'independent
observer' here are you? You're hugely biased in favour of Borland and
Borland products.
And let's face it, you seem to have developed some bias as well (I have
no idea why, though). <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"We must all hear the universal call to like your neighbor like you
like to be liked yourself." -- George W. Bush
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

David Smith writes:
Quote
No, we're not all confused. Evidently just few people.
PC Plus magazine (a respected UK publication) begs to differ. Indeed,
in their most recent issue, in a column titled 'Developing Trends' they
had this to say :
"For some reasons best known to themselves, Borland has chosen to cause
confusion by also referring to its version of Object Pascal as Delphi."
--
Derek Davidson
www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

Alexander Adam writes:
Quote
Well, honestly C# is a real great language
It is good to see some other open-minded people in here.
--
Derek Davidson
www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

Quote
No, thanks. No need for C#. I prefer Delphi and the VCL, also in .NET.
Well, honestly C# is a real great language. We're developing our new
application in it and it works just great, besides the Visual C# Express IDE
really beats the current Delphi Environment (We don't like VS.NET but VS C#
is pretty good).
C# Simply provides a lot of nice-to-have features but generally I think .NET
itself really rocks. I love System.Xml* <grin>
Alex
 

Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

Quote
In what ways is Delphi 2005 behind Visual Studio 2003?
one example
2005 - 2003 = 2 years
;)