Board index » delphi » Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...


2006-06-14 11:55:19 PM
delphi234
Martin Waldenburg writes:
Quote
some of the insultings are still there and that is all waht counts.
If I have failed to *completely* clean up the mess you helped create,
I apologize.
Can we please drop this now?
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Everything You Need to Know About InterBase Character Sets:
blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/articles/403.aspx
 
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Martin Waldenburg writes:
Quote
I just don't get it.
It should have done right the first time.
People just need to learn programming,
<snip>
Yes, and some people need to learn that other people can make mistakes.
(mistakes also known as bugs in the software world).
And that these mistakes can (and need to) be corrected, for software
these corrections can be called hotfixes.
And i for one love the fact that Borland/DevCo is working hard towards
customer (or at least my) satisfaction by providing these hotfixes.
--
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Martin Waldenburg writes:

>some of the insultings are still there and that is all waht counts.

If I have failed to *completely* clean up the mess you helped create,
I apologize.
not accepted.
Martin
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Quote
>>If it was easy, it would have been included in sp1.
>If it occurred consistently on every test machine, and it was easy to
fix,
>it would have been fixed in the initial release of Delphi 2005.

The responsiveness of the IDE is, in my view, very important: that is,
after
all, what we deal with most of the time. So, independent of how
difficult it
is to fix, it should, in my view, have been given priority. By delaying
the
fix (for whatever reason), I am sure that Borland have frustrated quite
a
few people and maybe even lost quite a few customers.
It was Brad who suggested that the fix was delayed because it was not
easy to implement. OTOH, my understanding was that the problem did not
show up during in-house and beta testing, and only happened on some
users' machines, so it was difficult to analyze and reproduce.
Rick Carter
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group
--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

"Rick Carter" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
>>>If it was easy, it would have been included in sp1.
>>If it occurred consistently on every test machine, and it was easy to
>>fix,
>>it would have been fixed in the initial release of Delphi 2005.
>
It was Brad who suggested that the fix was delayed because it was not
easy to implement.
I apologize if I gave that impression. That was not my intent.
Quote
OTOH, my understanding was that the problem did not
show up during in-house and beta testing, and only happened on some
users' machines, so it was difficult to analyze and reproduce.

I agree completely. I can fix any problem I can reproduce.
But if I can not reproduce it reliably, your chances go down
considerably.
I assume that it is the same for them. that is why I said they
needed more data points to pin it down.
--
Hope that is clearer,
Brad.
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Alan Garny writes:
Quote
I really wonder what would be a good reason for not being able to deal with
it straight away? You seem to be forgetting that *we*, users, are the one
indirectly responsible for keeping Borland in business by paying for their
products.
I should probably chime in here and help clear some of this up.
There is actually quite a bit of history surrounding this issue. As you
may or may not know, there was an "Update 3" released for Delphi 2005
which was primarily intended to deal with this same issue (unacceptable
delays when activating the form designer). The work that was done for
that update was centered around the number of components that were
installed (not the number of component packages) and addressed
inefficiencies in the tool palette refreshing logic. AFAIK, that update
was well received and I presumed that it solved the problem.
At the time we shipped Delphi 2006, there were no complaints (that I was
aware of) from our field testers regarding the performance of switching
between the code editor and form designer. However, once the product
started hitting the streets I observed complaints from various users
that this old problem was back (here in this forum). At this point I
contacted one of the users who was experiencing these delays in an
attempt to get the problem figured out. Initially, this was not
productive as I was still focusing on the tool palette and the total
component count as being the primary culprits.
After further research, I finally isolated the problem as being related
to the total number of component packages and not to the number of
components themselves. Unfortunately, this discovery didn't occur until
we were already locking down the second update in preparation for
release. So, to make a long story short, that is how this ended up
being released as a hotfix.
It's also worth pointing out that this problem affects only a very small
percentage of users. There is no way for me to know for sure, but my
best guestimation is that it is less than 2%. Had the problem been more
systemic, and aggravating a larger percentage of the user base, I would
have made a bigger push to get it out sooner. it is in a fairly core
area of the product, so I wanted to get as much informal field testing
as possible before releasing it to the public.
Quote
So, if we are not happy with them, we may end up going elsewhere.
I have seriously considered doing that in the last few years, but like lots
of 'old' Borlandders, I decided to keep giving Borland another chance and
another, etc. It would seem that it is finally paying off, but again like
many users, I had in the last few years to cope with what I'd consider
being non-finished products.
I appreciate you giving us the second chance. I also recognize that
without paying customers we wouldn't be in business long. I am not going
to go into a discussion about the decision making process for when our
products ship. Suffice it to say that I think everyone recognizes that
the products we have released in recent years could have benefited from
additional baking time, but at the end of the day we are a business and
if we don't ship products we can not pay the bills.
Your feedback about this matter is welcome, and to the extent to which
it is in my power to improve the product on behalf of the community I'm
going to do that. If you are seriously considering jumping ship I
invite you contact me directly and let me know why.
I'm glad that "Hotfix #5" has attracted attention and generated
e{*word*277}ment. If it is what the people want there will be more!
Mark
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

"Mark Edington (Borland)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Alan Garny writes:
>I really wonder what would be a good reason for not being able to deal
>with it straight away? You seem to be forgetting that *we*, users, are
>the one indirectly responsible for keeping Borland in business by paying
>for their products.
I should probably chime in here and help clear some of this up.
Thanks for this Mark.
I shall not contact you, though, as I certainly don't intend to jump ship. I
have invested too much time and effort in my project to rewrite it using
another IDE / programming language, not to mention that I yet have to find
something else that I'd be happy to use (I tried). You guys at Borland
have done a very good job over the years, it is just that the standard has,
in my view, slipped a bit in the last few years, but things seem to be going
up again, which is good!
Alan.
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Quote
I shall not contact you, though, as I certainly don't intend to jump
ship. I
have invested too much time and effort in my project to rewrite it using
another IDE / programming language, not to mention that I yet have to
find
something else that I'd be happy to use (I tried). You guys at
Borland
have done a very good job over the years, it is just that the standard
has,
in my view, slipped a bit in the last few years, but things seem to be
going
up again, which is good!
I agree with the assessment of the slump over the last few years, but
it looks like that was largely due to poor management decisions and
underfunding. It looks like the Delphi team is finally once again getting
funding proportionate to the revenue the product brings in, and with the
DevCo spinoff things should continue to get better.
Rick Carter
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group
--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Mark,
thank you for the background.
I can only speak on my own experience that I'd rather have Borland /
DevCo release hotfixes as they can, then fold them up into service packs
along with planned improvements that may not generally be considered
something of extreme urgency.
I know that emergencies and ranking of importance is subjective. What
is important for a fellow programmer in a .NET Delphi project may not
mean anything to me. I can only hope that the best judgment is made by
the staff.
Hotfix 5 was something that I think everyone generally appreciates, and
as someone who has a lot of 3rd party packages and components, this has
drastically improved my productivity and reallocated my blue words to be
more towards M$ issues, which I think is more fun to direct towards.
Lance
Mark Edington (Borland) writes:
Quote
Alan Garny writes:

>I really wonder what would be a good reason for not being able to deal
>with it straight away? You seem to be forgetting that *we*, users, are
>the one indirectly responsible for keeping Borland in business by
>paying for their products.

I should probably chime in here and help clear some of this up.

There is actually quite a bit of history surrounding this issue. As you
may or may not know, there was an "Update 3" released for Delphi 2005
which was primarily intended to deal with this same issue (unacceptable
delays when activating the form designer). The work that was done for
that update was centered around the number of components that were
installed (not the number of component packages) and addressed
inefficiencies in the tool palette refreshing logic. AFAIK, that update
was well received and I presumed that it solved the problem.

At the time we shipped Delphi 2006, there were no complaints (that I was
aware of) from our field testers regarding the performance of switching
between the code editor and form designer. However, once the product
started hitting the streets I observed complaints from various users
that this old problem was back (here in this forum). At this point I
contacted one of the users who was experiencing these delays in an
attempt to get the problem figured out. Initially, this was not
productive as I was still focusing on the tool palette and the total
component count as being the primary culprits.

After further research, I finally isolated the problem as being related
to the total number of component packages and not to the number of
components themselves. Unfortunately, this discovery didn't occur until
we were already locking down the second update in preparation for
release. So, to make a long story short, that is how this ended up
being released as a hotfix.

It's also worth pointing out that this problem affects only a very small
percentage of users. There is no way for me to know for sure, but my
best guestimation is that it is less than 2%. Had the problem been more
systemic, and aggravating a larger percentage of the user base, I would
have made a bigger push to get it out sooner. it is in a fairly core
area of the product, so I wanted to get as much informal field testing
as possible before releasing it to the public.


>So, if we are not happy with them, we may end up going elsewhere. I
>have seriously considered doing that in the last few years, but like
>lots of 'old' Borlandders, I decided to keep giving Borland another
>chance and another, etc. It would seem that it is finally paying off,
>but again like many users, I had in the last few years to cope with
>what I'd consider being non-finished products.

I appreciate you giving us the second chance. I also recognize that
without paying customers we wouldn't be in business long. I am not going
to go into a discussion about the decision making process for when our
products ship. Suffice it to say that I think everyone recognizes that
the products we have released in recent years could have benefited from
additional baking time, but at the end of the day we are a business and
if we don't ship products we can not pay the bills.

Your feedback about this matter is welcome, and to the extent to which
it is in my power to improve the product on behalf of the community I'm
going to do that. If you are seriously considering jumping ship I
invite you contact me directly and let me know why.

I'm glad that "Hotfix #5" has attracted attention and generated
e{*word*277}ment. If it is what the people want there will be more!

Mark

 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Mark Edington (Borland) writes:
Quote
I should probably chime in here and help clear some of this up.
This would make a great blog entry.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Tom Corey writes:
Quote
you've identified one of the things that I'm
far above average at!
LOL!
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com
 

Re: HotFix 5. My Compliments...

Bruce McGee writes:
Quote
Playing the stock market is equally simple. Buy low and sell high
Either that, or be a trader. They don't care as long as the market is
moving. They make their money whether it goes up or down.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com