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Re: Article on Delphi


2007-08-15 05:12:40 AM
delphi132
Bob Dawson writes:
Quote
"The vast majority of all development on the MS Windows platform now targets
the .NET platform."

I've never seen any credible data to back this up.
The job ads say he has a point though.
--
Arthur Hoornweg
(In order to reply per e-mail, please just remove the ".net"
from my e-mail address. Leave the rest of the address intact
including the "antispam" part. I had to take this measure to
counteract unsollicited mail.)
 
 

Re: Article on Delphi

I invite you to take a look on that page again under the description of the
professional version. There is a small excerpt there that says it does
include drivers for Interbase and MySQL. Again, I state that the author of
the article is wrong when he states it did not even include drivers for
Interbase.
Johann.
"Brian Evans" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Johann Campbell writes:
>Strange, mine comes with dbExpress which has drivers for many databases,
>including those he mentioned as not being in the Professional version.
>Unless I am mistaken. I dunno.
>

At www.codegear.com/products/delphi/win32 select the
Feature Matrix on the left side (it's a link to a PDF.) Now
on page 2 & 4 look at the database development and connectvity
section. Lot of drivers and a few other database related
features listed as in ENT and not in PRO.

Brian
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Tony Caduto writes:
Quote
This is a very poorly written article.

"The .NET platform is such a quantum leap in terms of improvement over
the older MFC and Win32 API that MS has gone way ahead of Delphi's VCL."

.net is NOT way ahead of the VCL, that is just plain bull.
I think the author of the article has some valid points.
The VCL is a framework of visual and non-visual components that
encapsulates some of the Win32 API into objects and makes
programming life much easier. Most of this rotates around
tapplication, tform and tcomponent. Very comfortable, but we
really had most of this in Delphi 1.0 already.
The VCL introduces no really new *concepts*. Not in the area of
inter-process communication, not in the area of security, not in the
area of server-side programming etc. And certainly not system-wide
concepts. All of this can be bought as third-party components
but that merely proves the point that it is missing.
.NET does introduce many new concepts and treats them as extension
of the *operating system* rather than components of an application.
That's a whole different beast. The company that wrote Windows
comes up with a framework that *extends* Windows and delivers
a cheap IDE to go with it.
Quote

There is not a whole lot that I can not do in Delphi vs .net.
You can get literally *anything* done in Delphi. But .NET has everything
and the kitchen sink already built-in.
Quote

let's see, C# visual studio does not have the concept of a data module
nor can you share things like a image list at design time between many
forms. You can pass references to a common image list at run time to
things like button etc, but you can not do it at design time.
And other things are less straightforward to do in Delphi.
.NET can do things like remoting. And ASP.NET. And you can
remote-control SQL Server from within the VS IDE, making
MS SQL the natural choice to the developer. This integration
alone earns Microsoft millions of dollars. Why on earth didn't
Borland integrate Interbase into the Delphi IDE?
Let's face it, Codegear needs to produce some new arguments for
Delphi. "Delphi can do anything that C# can" just isn't good enough
to win anybody over.
It would be better to convincingly demonstrate that Delphi can
do some things better/faster/safer than C#.
Or to write a "must-have" killer application that proudly displays
a "developed with Delphi" splash screen on every desktop in
the world so that everybody becomes aware of Delphi.
--
Arthur Hoornweg
(In order to reply per e-mail, please just remove the ".net"
from my e-mail address. Leave the rest of the address intact
including the "antispam" part. I had to take this measure to
counteract unsollicited mail.)
 

Re: Article on Delphi

"Moni" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
www.ittoolbox.com/profiles/pkphilip/journal-entry/1416
"I think the start of the collapse was when Phillipe Kahn was forced to
leave Borland. Borland seemed to have lost its heart when Kahn left."
Yep. Another brilliant startup devoured by the corporate monster.
blogs.slcdug.org/jjacobson/archive/2007/08/11/12494.aspx
 

Re: Article on Delphi

"Arthur Hoornweg" wrote
Quote

The job ads say he has a point though.
And five years ago you'd never get another job if you didn't know Java.
bobD
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Quote
Ain't it cool to have the internet
That's what I thought,
Lucian
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Hi Moni,
Moni writes:
Quote
www.ittoolbox.com/profiles/pkphilip/journal-entry/1416
Instead of filling a thread here, I responded to his article as follows:
"You write that "the professional version of Delphi does not even
include drivers for RDBMS such as Firebird, Interbase, MS SQL Server
etc." which makes me wonder if you've actually even installed the
professionsl version of Delphi, since it surely *does* include drivers
for InterBase, SQL Server, MySQL, etc.
Even without installing, you could have know this by reading the
information at www.codegear.com/products/delphi/win32
When you write that "the support for .NET 2.0 is going to be in Delphi
only in 2008", I wonder if you really know the contents of the CodeGear
RAD Studio 5.0, with the currently released personalities (or
identities) Delphi 2007 for Win32 and C++Builder 2007, with the Delphi
2007 for .NET 2.0 (and 3.0) to follow shortly. Still in 2007, and no
surprise, since this was communicated to the Delphi community a long
time now.
Playing catch-up with Microsoft may sound like a good idea to you, but
to me it is more important to be able to re-use existing code and
projects. With the VCL - avaialble for 12+ years now, I have been able
to move applications from Win32 to Linux (with Kylix) and .NET 1.1 and
soon to .NET 2.0 and higher. Tell that to a MFC or WinForms developer.
Oh and in case you didn't know it already, let me tell you a little
"secret": Delphi 2007 for .NET will no longer offer design-time support
for WinForms. You can probably still compile them (just like C# and VB
projects), but for designing applications, the VCL is the way to go. At
least that will prevent us from having to rewrite applications when
Microsoft releases the Next Holy Grail.
I guess you haven't been really using Delphi for a while, but just watch
the things that are cooking. As far as I recall, Delphi 2007 for Win32
was the first native development environment for Windows Vista. And you
can read the roadmap to see more information about native 64-bit
development (for Delphi as well as C++)."
I will also post a link (and my reply) on my own blog. What a silly
article he wrote...
Groetjes,
Bob Swart
--
Bob Swart Training & Consultancy (eBob42.com) Forever Loyal to Delphi
CodeGear Technology Partner -- CodeGear RAD Studio Reseller (BeNeLux)
Blog: www.drbob42.com/blog - RSS: eBob42.com/weblog.xml
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Captain Jake writes:
Quote
"I think the start of the collapse was when Phillipe Kahn was forced
to leave Borland. Borland seemed to have lost its heart when Kahn
left."

Yep. Another brilliant startup devoured by the corporate monster.
I don't agree. Borland was /very/ "corporate" before and after the
board forced out Kahn. Simply blaming the (poor-to-borderline-suicidal,
IMHO) decision to do that on "corporateness" is in some ways glossing
over the very real failure of the board at the time to allow the
company to /continue/ innovating. They thought they had a good thing
going with the office suite and didn't want to blow that on some
new-fangled mobile computing thing.
Shortly after he left Borland, Kahn would build his first camera phone.
Borland did very well as a corporate monster, for a while.
-Craig
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
All the great TeamB service you've come to expect plus (New!)
Irish Tin Whistle tips: learningtowhistle.blogspot.com
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Bob,
Maybe I missed something, but I don't see that Delphi 2007 Pro includes a
driver for MS SQL Server in the link you provided. It says...
"Professional also includes drivers for connecting to InterBase and MySQL
4.1/5.X."
Goog
"Bob Swart" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Hi Moni,

Moni writes:
>www.ittoolbox.com/profiles/pkphilip/journal-entry/1416

Instead of filling a thread here, I responded to his article as follows:


"You write that "the professional version of Delphi does not even include
drivers for RDBMS such as Firebird, Interbase, MS SQL Server etc." which
makes me wonder if you've actually even installed the professionsl version
of Delphi, since it surely *does* include drivers for InterBase, SQL
Server, MySQL, etc.
Even without installing, you could have know this by reading the
information at www.codegear.com/products/delphi/win32

When you write that "the support for .NET 2.0 is going to be in Delphi
only in 2008", I wonder if you really know the contents of the CodeGear
RAD Studio 5.0, with the currently released personalities (or identities)
Delphi 2007 for Win32 and C++Builder 2007, with the Delphi 2007 for .NET
2.0 (and 3.0) to follow shortly. Still in 2007, and no surprise, since
this was communicated to the Delphi community a long time now.

Playing catch-up with Microsoft may sound like a good idea to you, but to
me it is more important to be able to re-use existing code and projects.
With the VCL - avaialble for 12+ years now, I have been able to move
applications from Win32 to Linux (with Kylix) and .NET 1.1 and soon to
.NET 2.0 and higher. Tell that to a MFC or WinForms developer. Oh and in
case you didn't know it already, let me tell you a little "secret": Delphi
2007 for .NET will no longer offer design-time support for WinForms. You
can probably still compile them (just like C# and VB(Visual Basic) projects), but for
designing applications, the VCL is the way to go. At least that will
prevent us from having to rewrite applications when Microsoft releases the
Next Holy Grail.

I guess you haven't been really using Delphi for a while, but just watch
the things that are cooking. As far as I recall, Delphi 2007 for Win32 was
the first native development environment for Windows Vista. And you can
read the roadmap to see more information about native 64-bit development
(for Delphi as well as C++)."


I will also post a link (and my reply) on my own blog. What a silly
article he wrote...

Groetjes,
Bob Swart

--
Bob Swart Training & Consultancy (eBob42.com) Forever Loyal to Delphi
CodeGear Technology Partner -- CodeGear RAD Studio Reseller (BeNeLux)
Blog: www.drbob42.com/blog - RSS: eBob42.com/weblog.xml
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Bob Dawson writes:
Quote
And five years ago you'd never get another job if you didn't know Java.
Still valid. Most job ads are either .NET or java.
Even c++ is on the decline.
--
Arthur Hoornweg
(In order to reply per e-mail, please just remove the ".net"
from my e-mail address. Leave the rest of the address intact
including the "antispam" part. I had to take this measure to
counteract unsollicited mail.)
 

Re: Article on Delphi

"Arthur Hoornweg" wrote
Quote

Still valid. Most job ads are either .NET or java.
Even c++ is on the decline.
The original claim was
"The vast majority of all development on the MS Windows platform
now targets the .NET platform."
Actually, I think as much still targets the JVM as the .NET VM, but it's
certainly not a case of 'vast majority.' And there's still quite a bit of
native development going on.
Seems to me that even MS acknowledges that .NET has had its greatest impact
in Web programming (ASP.NET)--much more than with WinForms/desktop
work--i.e., that .NET is spreading first and fastest in same arena that Java
centers on. And for some of the same initial reasons: engine/environment
distribution and GUI performance.
Job ads are always going to overload with 'latest and greatest' skills.
MS sure is pouring a lot of money into its C++ compiler for a tool that's
"in decline."
bobD
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Goog writes:
Quote
Maybe I missed something, but I don't see that Delphi 2007 Pro
includes a driver for MS SQL Server in the link you provided. It
says...
ADO (dbGo) is native SQL Server connectivity.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Everything You Need to Know About InterBase Character Sets:
blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/articles/403.aspx
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Quote
>"The vast majority of all development on the MS Windows platform now
>targets
>the .NET platform."mfc delphi win32 powerbuilder VB6
>
>I've never seen any credible data to back this up.

The job ads say he has a point though.
I searched dice to see what the ratio was there:
"Windows Forms" or WinForms == 625 hits
"Windows Forms" or WinForms or WPF == 714 hits
MFC or Delphi == 574 hits
MFC or Delphi or Win32 == 780 hits
MFC or Delphi or Win32 or (gasp) powerbuilder == 1109
... or VB6 == 1489
I'm not sure the jobs ads prove that .NET has a vast majority over
native development. It may have the majority (if you exclude loser
products), but I don't see evidence of a "vast" majority. Note that I
was only interested in client development, so I excluded asp.net. I did
this because with web development, I don't think the issue is native vs
.net, but rather ASP vs Java vs Rails vs PHP.
I thought this was interesting:
Delphi == 198
MFC == 378
VB6 == 393
That is a respectable showing for Delphi. The ratio is less than 2:1 in
both cases. Of course, both MFC and VB6 are essentially dead, but still,
there is a mountain of VB6 and MFC code to maintain.
H^2
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Hi Goog,
Quote
Maybe I missed something, but I don't see that Delphi 2007 Pro includes a
driver for MS SQL Server in the link you provided. It says...
OK, I agree that the link doesn't mention SQL Server, but believe me
that it does ;-)
Quote
Goog
Groetjes,
Bob Swart
PS: It appears that "prem" has replied to my comment with three comments
of his own...
--
Bob Swart Training & Consultancy (eBob42.com) Forever Loyal to Delphi
CodeGear Technology Partner -- CodeGear RAD Studio Reseller (BeNeLux)
Blog: www.drbob42.com/blog - RSS: eBob42.com/weblog.xml
 

Re: Article on Delphi

Bob,
Are you saying that the Pro version contains a dbExpress driver for MS SQL,
or that you can acheive connectivity using dbGO? The product feature matrix
says there is no dbExpress connectivity to MS SQL in the Pro version. Does
the feature matrix contradict what actually ships with the Pro SKU? I use
the Pro edition, and have always avoided using dbExpress, because, based on
the feature matrix, I didn't think I could.
Thanks,
Goog
"Bob Swart" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Hi Goog,

>Maybe I missed something, but I don't see that Delphi 2007 Pro includes a
>driver for MS SQL Server in the link you provided. It says...

OK, I agree that the link doesn't mention SQL Server, but believe me that
it does ;-)

>Goog

Groetjes,
Bob Swart

PS: It appears that "prem" has replied to my comment with three comments
of his own...

--
Bob Swart Training & Consultancy (eBob42.com) Forever Loyal to Delphi
CodeGear Technology Partner -- CodeGear RAD Studio Reseller (BeNeLux)
Blog: www.drbob42.com/blog - RSS: eBob42.com/weblog.xml