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Re: EULA Issues


2007-11-07 10:31:15 AM
delphi237
Dave Nottage [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Ed writes:

>Kinda like when Borland released D4 (or was it D7?) and included D1
>with it?

AFAICT, that was because one was 32-bit, the other 16-bit.

Exactly. Which is irrelevant to any RAD studio products, but
not to D2005 which is .NET only so including Delphi 7 wouldn't be
too far fetched?
Ed
 
 

Re: EULA Issues

"Nick Hodges (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Kostya writes:

>2. Unconditional rights to transfer
>license (no written permission
>should be required)

Not sure this will happen.

How about a one-time transfer like in the Windows EULA?
Johann.
 

Re: EULA Issues

I agree that even transferring to one party offers a greater chance of
getting him as a long term customer than trying to get that customer 'cold.'
That is, if I was allowed to transfer that license to a friend the odds of
CodeGear keeping him as a customer is greater than hoping they would cross
paths soon.
Johann.
"David Ridgway" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
>>2. Unconditional rights to transfer
>>license (no written permission
>>should be required)
>
>Not sure this will happen.

I am curious as to why you implement such measures on transfers. I have a
full copy of BDS2006 on shelf here (I have a full copy of Delphi 2007 that I use
for my work) that is of no use to anyone, but frankly I don't have time to
go through the effort of trying to arrange a transfer.

The only reason I can possibly think of is that you want to make sure
people who want to get into Delphi have to buy a new license from CG.

While I can understand that from a revenue point of view, surely there is
an equal risk of the potential buyer saying "I can not afford the full
price, so I will get the free MS tools". By allowing second hand copies in
the market you are exposing your product to new people. People who may
very well upgrade to the latest version, adding to your revenue.

Cheers,

Dave
 

Re: EULA Issues

Dave Nottage [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Ed writes:

>D2005 which is .NET only so including Delphi 7 wouldn't be
>too far fetched?

D2005 does Win32. I expect you mean Delphi 8, which IIRC included D7.
I could be wrong, though.
No you're right.
D8 was .NET only, and Delphi 7 came in the package, but *only* if you bought
the *right* package.
Being on SA since that so i don't really have a problem, the only
versions of Delphi i skipped buying where 3 and 4. And i know i really
missed out on 3, but missed out on nothing with 4.
With D5 though, the IDE crashes started to happen, so i got Delphi 6 hoping
that would be better, but it was worse. That worsening has continued up
until today's current version.
IDE stability is on a steady decline.
--
 

Re: EULA Issues

TJC Support a écrit :
Quote
"Nick Hodges (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:4730ebbf$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>We don't currently do that, and I doubt we will. Providing older
>versions, especially really old versions, is problematical for a number
>of reasons.

Hi Nick,

When I worked for another company in the past, we were using MS Foxpro for a
lot of things, and when we added a new developer to the team, the only thing
available was Visual Foxpro, which was a Windows-only product, and our apps
were built using the DOS version. MS allowed us to buy the Visual Foxpro
license, then downgrade it to the older product. Sometimes you really,
really do need to have an additional license to an older product. I don't
think that you should be providing the older versions for free in addition
to the current product that somebody purchases, but I do think it would be a
very good thing to have some means by which a developer could obtain a
license and download an older version. In the real world it is just
impossible to make do with the current offering sometimes.

Cheers,
Van Swofford
Tybee Jet Corp.


In France, even though you can not buy a Windows 95 license anymore, when you
buy a Windows Vista license you're allowed to install any version of Windows
up to Vista, giving the fact that only one system with one license is
allowed (i.e. you can not install Win98 and Vista on 2 differents computers
with the same license). Of course you have to ask for a valid Windows 95
serial number.
--
Olivier Pons
olivier.pons.free.fr/
 

Re: EULA Issues

I want 3 things covered before I could
be convinced to continue buying new
versions and/or recommending it to
my customers.
1. Rights to downgrade. Old versions
MUST be offered for download from
your side to legitimate customers.
2. Unconditional rights to transfer
license (no written permission
should be required)
3. Removal of online activation
the way it is implemented now.
License should be obtained once
by internet/email/phone.
I still suspect that you'd do nothing like that.
 

Re: EULA Issues

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:14:01 -0000, Chris Morgan
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
>... Let's say
>I got a project that was originally
>done in D5 and I own for example D2007
>and the customer asked me to fix some
>bug.

But if the project was originally developed in D5, then
do you not already own a copy of D5?
But what if the person/company asked to fix the bug is not the
person/company who originally developed the project?
Or, even if it is the same person/company, what if the media for the
previous version is unreadable or has been thrown out because it was "no
longer needed" or was lost in an office move?
--
Paul Scott
Information Management Systems
Macclesfield, UK.
 

Re: EULA Issues

Quote
>But if the project was originally developed in D5, then
>do you not already own a copy of D5?

But what if the person/company asked to fix the bug is not the
person/company who originally developed the project?

Or, even if it is the same person/company, what if the media for the
previous version is unreadable or has been thrown out because it was "no
longer needed" or was lost in an office move?
With respect, that is not really CodeGear's problem.
It's a normal problem for businesses dealing with ongoing projects.
cheers,
Chris
 

Re: EULA Issues

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:05:58 -0000, Tom Corey
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
Kostya writes:

>>>2. Unconditional rights to transfer license
>>>(no written permission should be required)

You have to bear in mind that allowing free transfer of licenses would
impose a bookeeping burden on CodeGear.
How much of a burden - for a technology company - is it to maintain a list
of
Serial Number, [Company] Name and Address ?
Quote
If you own D2005, you're
entitled to an upgrade to Delphi 2007 at a reduced price. If you've
transferred your D2005 license to someone else, you are no longer
eligible for that reduced upgrade price - you'd have to pay full price.
I must be missing something. I thought that was the whole point of
"transferring a licence".
Whoever holds the latest licence has the eligibility to any upgrade.
(So my simplistic table was missing an "upgraded by serial number" column)
Quote
What about when you've upgraded to Delphi 2007 - surely you don't hope to be
able to transfer the license of your D2005.
No, I don't think anyone was asking for this.
Quote
Again, CodeGear would have
to have a way to accurately monitor such transfers.
But it is a Borland/CodeGear decision to /require/ "accurate monitoring"
and such a complicated activation processes.
--
Paul Scott
Information Management Systems
Macclesfield, UK.
 

Re: EULA Issues

Quote
>1. Rights to downgrade. Old versions
>MUST be offered for download from
>your side to legitimate customers.

What do you mean, exactly?
I mean exactly what I have said. Let's say
I got a project that was originally
done in D5 and I own for example D2007
and the customer asked me to fix some
bug. I should be able to download
D5 from your site since I already
paid for Delphi 2007 and do the job.
(Pleaser do not advise to port
project to new version since
it is much more trouble for no
benefit)
Quote
>2. Unconditional rights to transfer
>license (no written permission
>should be required)

Not sure this will happen.
Exactly. Instead of thinking
good things about my supplier
when they release something new
and exciting I'd be thinking
about supplier every time
they inconvenience me or I
have to explain those policies
to customer. Irritation surely
accumulates. Borland has done
enough damage, you do not have
to add more
Quote
>3. Removal of online activation
>the way it is implemented now.
>License should be obtained once
>by internet/email/phone.

Things may change, but I doubt this is going away.
Same as above. Keep me busy until
I've had enough;)
 

Re: EULA Issues

Hi Nick,
The main thing I'd like to see is some clarification on purchasing
upgrade editions.
A number of your resellers are telling customers that once you install a
upgrade you have to uninstall the previous version and this acts as an
effective barrier to upgrading if you have a large number of applications
you would prefer to migrate in a controlled fashion.
Cheers
-Mohamed
 

Re: EULA Issues

Quote
>I'm not sure there are any, either -- but it would be great to
>clarify one way or the other. Some components require that you post
>(in your 'about' box, for example) that you are using XYZ components,
>etc.

We have no such requirements.
No harm in saying so is there? If this is something someone may check for,
then it quickly answers their question. Just because you don't require
something doesn't mean you needn't put this in the FAQ.
/Matthew Jones/
 

Re: EULA Issues

Ed writes:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] writes:
>
>You paid for D2007, not for D5. Why should anyone paying for one of
>the products be entitled to get all previous products?

Kinda like when Borland released D4 (or was it D7?) and included D1
with it?
Yes, that was a nice service from Borland. It is not something you
should expect or demand, IMO.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"The gods too are fond of a joke." -- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)
 

Re: EULA Issues

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:53:23 -0000, Chris Morgan <chris.nospam at lynxinfo
dot co dot <"uk>">writes:
Quote
>>But if the project was originally developed in D5, then
>>do you not already own a copy of D5?
>
>But what if the person/company asked to fix the bug is not the
>person/company who originally developed the project?
>
>Or, even if it is the same person/company, what if the media for the
>previous version is unreadable or has been thrown out because it was "no
>longer needed" or was lost in an office move?

With respect, that is not really CodeGear's problem.
It's a normal problem for businesses dealing with ongoing projects.
Whether it is a "normal problem" or the original developer/company has gone
broke/emigrated/..., surely the important point we're discussing is if/how
someone could help a *customer* with a Delphi problem?
"If you don't bother about your customers, sooner or later they'll stop
bothering you"
--
Paul Scott
Information Management Systems
Macclesfield, UK.
 

Re: EULA Issues

Ed writes:
Quote
Dave Nottage [TeamB] writes:
>Ed writes:
>
>>Kinda like when Borland released D4 (or was it D7?) and included
>>D1 with it?
>
>AFAICT, that was because one was 32-bit, the other 16-bit.
>

Exactly. Which is irrelevant to any RAD studio products, but
not to D2005 which is .NET only
D2005 was not .NET only. Only Delphi 8 was, and AFAIK, that came with D7, if
you ordered that package (which meant you got Delphi 7 for a very low price,
or, in some SKUs, even for free).
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the
shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for {*word*76}...
War is hell." -- General William Tecumseh Sherman