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Delphi license at home from license at work?

At home I have Delphi 4 prof.

At work I use Delphi 5/6 Enterprise.

Does this allow me to use Delphi 5/6 at home?

 

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


On 14 Sep 2002, Erik Springelkamp <del...@springelkamp.nl> wrote:

Quote
> At home I have Delphi 4 prof.

> At work I use Delphi 5/6 Enterprise.

> Does this allow me to use Delphi 5/6 at home?

My understanding has always been that this is fine as long as you're not
using both at the same time.

--
-Mike

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


Concurring with Mike but I just wanted to add a point.

I{*word*7}but if you're using D5/6 Ent at home for personal use then your
employer may have a good claim on ownership of anything you write using it.

Kev

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


Quote
> I{*word*7}but if you're using D5/6 Ent at home for personal use then your
> employer may have a good claim on ownership of anything you write using

it.

Disclaimer: This should not be construed as legal advise.

I got in a copyright dispute with a company, spent around a thousand dollars
on research, and this would be an interesting situation. The key to
ownership would be who owns the tools to make the item. A case out of
Seattle where a sculpture sculpted on site for the person paying for the
sculpture but he used his own tools. The sculpture ended up owning the
copyright because the tools used to make the art were owned by him. In this
case, seeing the computer is owned by one party but Delphi by another, it
would make for an interesting debate. I would guess (conjecture here) since
the primary tool was Delphi, the employer could claim ownership.

Disclaimer: This should not be construed as legal advise. (I work with too
many lawyers, gotta put this in 2x :-) ).

Ed Dressel

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


I am signed up as an artist: Everything I make in my own time automatically
belongs to my employer.

Frank

Quote
"Kev French" <news...@carbonsoft.com> wrote in message

news:3d835939@newsgroups.borland.com...
Quote
> Concurring with Mike but I just wanted to add a point.

> I{*word*7}but if you're using D5/6 Ent at home for personal use then your
> employer may have a good claim on ownership of anything you write using

it.

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


Quote
"Kev French" <news...@carbonsoft.com> wrote in message

news:3d835939@newsgroups.borland.com...

Quote
> Concurring with Mike but I just wanted to add a point.

> I{*word*7}but if you're using D5/6 Ent at home for personal use then your
> employer may have a good claim on ownership of anything you write using
it.

Can be a very complex matter best avoided by prior agreement, generally
falls into two broad categories.

1) The author is a regular company employee, ie employer files an IRS W2
form on his wages.

Many (most savvy) companies have employees sign agreements that allows them
to claim ownership of any creation of the employee regardless of the
circumstance. Many will then enter into a side agreement that allows
employees to claim ownership on a case by case basis for apps developed by
employee at home.

If there is no written agreement then it can be murky and messy as to who
can claim stuff developed while off the premises and away from the company.
Things like; is it totally and completely outside the normal commercial
interest of the company and something not at all related to his employment
and not developed using company resources then the employee has a chance to
maybe gain ownership. Can be brutal and expensive, why not get your company
to agree up front who has ownership? If you don't notify em up front and
develop behind their back they have ample reason to be pissed and
vindictive - they usually have lots more money for lawyers than you do plus
you end up without a job.

2) The author is not a regular employee, ie company files an IRS 1099 form
on his wages (any payments, expenses, supplied equipment, gifts, or bartered
services usually count as wages)

The author normally keeps ownership of what he has created but has an
obligation to provide the app and license to use for the intended purpose to
the outfit that hired him. Not necessarily obligated to supply source code
but often there is some formal agreement that spells out the many terms and
conditions including supplying source code etc. Increasingly because of
liability and insurance problems many smaller developers find it necessary
to work through a third party, sometimes referred to as a bodyshop and you
damn well better have a good contract with that low life bastard, most will
sell your soul for a penny. Getting your final payment(s) sometime gets hung
up with a demand to provide source code.

Best advice is always go in with your eyes open and get a written agreement
that includes all those things you want to protect. Handshakes with nods and
smiles is not always the way to avoid trouble.

Now days these things almost never come to knock down litigation unless the
developed app is somehow extremely valuable to the company and/or one of the
parties gets really pissed at the other.

--Hairy

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


I think what is fair is that the copyright should go to the person
who owned the time that was invested in performing the work.

Frank

Quote
"Jason Peters" <nos...@spambuster.com> wrote in message

news:3d83ac66@newsgroups.borland.com...
Quote
> Isn't the primary tool the brain, secondary the fingers?

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


"Frank de Groot" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3d83ae47@newsgroups.borland.com...
Quote
> I think what is fair is that the copyright should go to the person
> who owned the time that was invested in performing the work.

 Hi Frank,

I'll suggest an example and why don't you, Jason, Damian or anyone else
solve the puzzle.

Let's say for the last 3 years you have worked full time for a company that
manufactured and sold circuit boards which they designed themselves and your
job was writing and maintaining the design software which was written in MS
C++.  For a long time you keep telling your boss Joe that you could do your
work in half the time if only you were allowed to use Delphi and Joe said,
Frank we just don't use any tools in my department that aren't from MS.

So just to show Joe how stupid (pointy haired bastard) he really is and on
your own time at home in your ba{*word*224}t using your own computer loaded with
software only you had purchased you wrote a new circuit design package using
Delphi and it turned out so well you have decided to start a small business
to sell your superduper circuit design software done with Delphi.

You have no written employee agreement with your company that even mentions
software or intellectual property.

So who legally owns the fruits of your labor resulting from your ba{*word*224}t
designs?

--Hairy

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


"Harry Van Tassell" <ha...@nada.com> wrote in message
news:3d83bbcf@newsgroups.borland.com...

Quote
> So just to show Joe how stupid (pointy haired bastard) he really is and on
> your own time at home in your ba{*word*224}t using your own computer loaded with
> software only you had purchased you wrote a new circuit design package
using
> Delphi and it turned out so well you have decided to start a small
business
> to sell your superduper circuit design software done with Delphi.

> You have no written employee agreement with your company that even
mentions
> software or intellectual property.

Well, for me in this case the product belongs to you. If you do it at home
with your delphi,
geez, it's gotta be yours.

There are details anyway: it's not the same to write a generic finance
application at home
than writing a specific-circuit board application... If you use some kind of
inside, private
information, yes, you might be in problems there.

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


Quote
"damian marquez" <dmarque...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3d83c697@newsgroups.borland.com...

Quote

> Well, for me in this case the product belongs to you. If you do it at
> home with your delphi, geez, it's gotta be yours.

Not necessarily, I think in the USA most courts would force you to assign
the rights to your efforts to your employer and additionally prohibit you
from producing similar products until there has been sufficient time elapsed
(years) to make it less likely your work was the product of your special
knowledge derived from your association from your now former employer who by
that time has fired your arse. Not a pretty picture as you walk to streets
looking for a new job and when contacted for a reference Joe (pointy haired
bastard)  gleefully tells the story of why you were sacked to your
prospective new employer. Not to mention the large lawyers fees you still
owe and maybe additional court costs you must pay.

It's a little unlikely that your employer will smile, pat you on the back,
and thank you for proving how wrong was that bastard Joe who they fire for
being so stupid while you pocket the money generated from your ba{*word*224}t
efforts.;-)

Quote

> There are details anyway: it's not the same to write a generic finance
> application at home
> than writing a specific-circuit board application... If you use some kind
of
> inside, private
> information, yes, you might be in problems there.

Did you read my other posting where I spoke about "If there is no written
agreement then it can be murky and messy...". Not to say that a prior
agreement always prevents murky and messy situations.

While I'm no lawyer I did spend 20+ years in the technology licensing
business. I can guarantee that we would have never let someone with a case
as described even get in the front lobby reception area much less talk to
that person or his representative. Way too much at stake to risk our being
"contaminated" by your knowledge. You become what is known as a dirty
bird.;-)

--Hairy

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


In article <3d83f...@newsgroups.borland.com>, ha...@nada.com says...

Quote

>[snip]
> Not necessarily, I think in the USA most courts would force you to assign
> the rights to your efforts to your employer
>and additionally prohibit you
> from producing similar products until there has been sufficient time elapsed
> (years) to make it less likely your work was the product of your special
> knowledge derived from your association from your now former employer who by
> that time has fired your arse.

From what I understand, that is limited to a particular time and depends
upon contracts with the employer.  By law, there is a limitation of time
with non-compete agreements and if that is too long, a court might throw
it out because that will violate public policy against barring
competition in the market place.  If there is no non-compete agreement
and you did not use trade secrets from an employer, then going after an
ex-employee who then starts a similar business can be iffy.  That ex-
employer could try to sue but in so doing, risk having his secrets
exposed in the discovery process (the discovery process is where
depositions are taken and both sides obtain information relating to the
matter and hand - it sometimes rife with games) and since a lot of this
goes before the court, it could easily become public record (civil
lawsuits are public record).

In addition, it could also depend on how closely you worked with a
particular piece of intellectual property rights.  This may not apply
here, but I did read of a case where a clerk was fired and the clerk
went onto a competitor.  The ex-employer sued on the grounds that it
violated a non-compete agreement and the court threw that ground out
saying that there really was not any intellectual property rights to
preserve (the clerk only dealt with things such as suppliers and
pricing).

I'm not totally disagreeing with you but I just wanted to add a little
perspective on things.  I'm no lawyer myself.
--
Support the anti-Spam amendment - Join at http://www.cauce.org/
J. Peter Mugaas     E-Mail:  oma00...@mail.wvnet.edu
http://wvnvm.wvnet.edu/~oma00215/  ICQ Number:  14297043
Finger for PGP Key

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


I have been in that exact same situation.

12 years ago, I was making electrotechnical drawings for an electrotechnical
company.
We used a Rotring 2D-CAD package with a Rotring plotter. My boss still
hadn't paid the bill for that system.
I found so many bugs that we managed to send the system back, after having
used it for one year,
and we didn't have to pay, very much to the dismay of Rotring (but they
should be happy I found so many bugs).
In the meantime, I had gotten a lone for a fast computer, a Multisync
monitor and a A3 plotter, and spend about 1200 hours
on writing a 2D CAD package. After about a year, just when we had gotten rid
of that Rotring package,
I was beginning to do some drawings at home, and show them to my employer.
He visited me at home and 'forced' me to do business with him by
transferring 2 month's salaries to my account, "as shares".
Then he gave me a fulltime job, developing the program further. I had
deposited the program with a notary in the meantime, on his own initiative.
(And he paid for that).

After 1 year working for him, when the program was finished, he didn't pay
my last invoices (I had become {*word*137}).
So I got mad and disputed the copyright on that program. It never even
reached the courts, his lawyer advised him to pay me
money for the copyright. Copyright is a good thing. It protects your efforts
against vultures.

Frank

"Harry Van Tassell" <ha...@nada.com> wrote in message
news:3d83bbcf@newsgroups.borland.com...

Quote

> You have no written employee agreement with your company that even
mentions
> software or intellectual property.

> So who legally owns the fruits of your labor resulting from your ba{*word*224}t
> designs?

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


"J. Peter Mugaas" <oma00...@mail.wvnet.edu> wrote in message
news:MPG.17ee320d430b0cd9989779@forums.borland.com...

Quote
> In article <3d83f...@newsgroups.borland.com>, ha...@nada.com says...

> >and additionally prohibit you
> > from producing similar products until there has been sufficient time
elapsed
> > (years) to make it less likely your work was the product of your special
> > knowledge derived from your association from your now former employer
who by
> > that time has fired your arse.

> From what I understand, that is limited to a particular time and depends
> upon contracts with the employer.  By law, there is a limitation of time
> with non-compete agreements and if that is too long, a court might throw
> it out because that will violate public policy against barring
> competition in the market place.  If there is no non-compete agreement
> and you did not use trade secrets from an employer, then going after an
> ex-employee who then starts a similar business can be iffy.  That ex-

Remember I set up the hypothetical so that there was no agreement and said
that it was possible that the court would hand down the can't use
restriction. Don't think a restriction of competition is a strong
consideration here and more likely the court would see it as simply the
employee's act of unlawful taking of property. If it is the result of a
court order then exemployee would need to appeal the decision - more costs
and time.

Quote
> went onto a competitor.  The ex-employer sued on the grounds that it
> violated a non-compete agreement and the court threw that ground out
> saying that there really was not any intellectual property rights to
> preserve (the clerk only dealt with things such as suppliers and
> pricing).

Hmmm, I would have thought that kind of info is trade secrets not
intellectual property. However, in many businesses the supplier and customer
information trade secrets are the only thing of value they have and the
unlawful taking of that information causing it to fall into the hands of a
competitor can cause the business serious damage or even to fail.

To me the whole area of intellectual property law is fascinating to watch
develop as we move further and further into the information age. Who owns
rights to what resides in you mind and often is the work product of your own
mind? The US Constitution provides for Patents as a way to try to solve some
of the "for the common good" problems associated with intellectual property
but there are many others that it didn't foresee.

As an aside, when clients jump all over me about projects with short
delivery times shouting angry demands that people work overtime on their
projects, I like to claim concern for the employees' Constitutional right to
be free of  "involuntary servitude".<G>

--Hairy

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


On a 14 ?e 2002 10:24:33p , "damian marquez" <dmarque...@hotmail.com>
wrote in news:3d838cb9@newsgroups.borland.com

Quote

> If the "brush" you use to paint is theirs, yes, I think that's
> the right way to see it.

Actually it is more complicated that this.

is the theames you paint related to the current job AKA they came to you
through you work and work experiense gained in the company?

Is the theames you paint in any way an opponent to the future
plans of the company?

all this are valid points and can't be easelly proven one way
or an other there is research time which you spend at home and
the results of it is been used on your work is this research
owned by your company can you prove that this research hasn't
consume any time of your work will they accept you reasoning
if the final result is something extra ordinary?

And this is only the top of the mountain which I would rather
not climb.

so create what ever you wish as long as it isn't based
directly to your current work find someone to handle
the AD and marketing efforts give him 30% place the
product under a company name and do not mention the team
noware on the final program. After a success storry place
your resignation and live to be employed by the newly
created company with this succesfull product, no buts or ifs
no one can ever proove that you have worked on it and do not
leave any clues they coold follow back to you. I know it isn't
ease but it is recomended IMHO.

regards
Johnnie.

Re:Delphi license at home from license at work?


Quote
"Erik Springelkamp" <del...@springelkamp.nl> wrote in message

news:o1h6ouk5u5rebqgpft4e54flgu6a12vce1@4ax.com...

Quote
> At home I have Delphi 4 prof.
> At work I use Delphi 5/6 Enterprise.

> Does this allow me to use Delphi 5/6 at home?

That depends on your employer, not the license.  The license is a concurrent
use license so you can install and use any version of Delphi to which you
hold a license on any number of machines (AFAIK) as long as only you use
those installations and only use one of them at a time.

But there are two separately held licenses involved here:

 - You own a D4 license.
 - Your employer owns a D6 license (to keep it simple we'll leave D5 out for
now).

You can use that D4 license on your employers PC as long as you aren't
simultaneously using it on your home PC.  However - whether you use the D4
license to conduct work for your employer would be entirely up to you and
your employer.  Since you are using your employers equipment (their PC,
network etc) legally the product of your efforts would _most_likely_ belong
to your employer under the terms of your employment contract, so it would be
best to settle on any terms that you might wish to apply to your employers
use of your _personal_ license beforehand.

Equally, you can use the D6 license on your home PC as long as you aren't
simultaneously using it on a work PC (and in this case as long as the number
of your employers licenses in use at any one time does not exceed the number
of licenses held - i.e. if there are 5 licenses and you are working at home
whilst 5 other people are working in the office, your employer does not have
sufficient licenses!).  But again, there is an additional contraint being
whether or not your employer is happy for you to use one of their license at
home.  But the D6 license still belongs to your employer, not you, and again
under the terms of your employment contract anything you produce using their
license will _most_likely_ belong to them, not you.

Most employment contracts claim ownership for an employer of an employees
work where that work is conducted on the employer's time or using the
employers resources (not necessarily exclusively - e.g your license + your
employers PC = use of employers resources = belongs to the employer).
Additionally, issues of competition and conflict of interest are usually
acknowledged in such terms.  e.g. even if you use your own license and your
own PC, if there is a conflict of interest you may be prohibited from
conducting your project or may be subject to a claim on the property by your
employer if you do proceed.

e.g. A conflict of interest of competition issue might arise from work
conducted for one of your employers customers that might otherwise have been
conducted by your employer, or if you produce software which competes with
your employers products/services or which would not have been possible for
you to create without benefitting from the knowledge and experience gained
whilst serving your employer etc etc.

Such terms and conditions often appear draconian and unreasonable as stated
in the contract.  That's because they are intended to cover all
eventualities and protect the employer.

_Most_ employers are actually far more flexible and reasonable than might be
suggested by the stated terms and conditions.  If you approach your employer
through your line manager with an honest outline of what you intend to do
and can demonstrate that it will not affect your ability to perform your
duties to your employer and will not result in a conflict of interest,
_most_ employers will give you written authority to carry on without fear of
having your employment contract thrown at you in a case for breach.  There
will usually be a rider attached to such an authority, where your employer
will reserve the right to withdraw the authority if they feel that it is
affecting your ability to do your job or that conditions have changed such
that a conflict has arisen etc etc.

Short answer:  Yes under the terms of the Delphi license, but ultimately
it's up to your employer, and you should double-check any possible
implications if you intend to use your employers license for projects other
than your employers.

--
Jolyon Smith
Neot Software Services Ltd.
http://www.neot.co.uk

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