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Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?


2003-08-27 07:43:05 AM
delphi205
Joe Real writes:
Quote
I would really love to vote, but I am having difficulty finding
information where to vote or how to use the client interface. Do
you have a simpler web-alternative instead of the custom client?

If not, then anybody tell me here how to view the different issues
and how to vote.
Ask John Kaster, he is good at making those videos, and will certainly
shoot his "baby" :-)
--
Ingvar Nilsen
filme
 
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

I would vote for
#4790 Midas, Midas generates an exception when filtering on WideString fields
#2717 Midas, Incorrect ChangeCount with TWideStringField
#4676 Midas, Size of Blobfields not adjusted when using RefreshRecord
#4513 ADO, Locate does not find Timestamps with milliseconds
#3031 Variants, Olevariant crash
#4945 Variants, VarArrayOf losing data after NULL
#3635 ADO, SQL Statements never get unprepared
#2190 Variants, There is a bug in array to variant array conversion
#2002 De{*word*81}, DLL Breakpoints lost in XP
#4836 De{*word*81}, can not Debug Newly Created Automation Object
#1177 Documentation, ResourceString limitation of 1024 characters
#2378 International, Incorrect multi-language (locale) support
#5603 Midas, M/D CDS data corrupt after cdsMaster.ApplyUpdates(0)
#5332 VCL, WM_ENDSESSION handling broken
#5071 Compiler, Optimizer problem with dynamic method call
#4071 RTL, Change in ComServ.pas between Delphi 6.0 ->7.0
#3951 IDE, Access Violation at shutdown
#3860 Midas, Blob parameters crashing with DataSnap with binary data
#3741 VCL, Splitter makes panels unaccessible
#3053 TLB-Editor, Access Violation in rtl70.bpl
#2771 ADO, TMemoField truncated by #0
#2714 Midas, Changing a value in a filtered CDS where ...
#5355 Midas, filter error in TClientDataSet
#5319 Midas, Client Dataset Locate method on a Word field always returns false
#4749 RTL, TThread.Destroy calls Resume when...
#4691 Midas, Deleted CDS detail records re-appear (client-side M/D)
#4653 VCL, Windows XP 32-bit icons & TImageList problem
#4214 VCL, PageControl corrupts contained controls position
#3786 Midas, ClientDataSet.FindKey on cloned cursor fails
#2886 VCL, CommaText considers space to be a delimiter too
...
and many more. I think I could go on forever. I have personally come across most of the above bugs.
I find there are so many bugs that need to be fixed.
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Quote
That's because you've so easily discarded several of the bugs as "not
for patch" and moved on.
Because they were feature requests and not bugs.
--
BorCon 2003 - www.borland.com/conf2003 - The Greatest Event Ever
Anders Ohlsson - Borland Developer Relations - bdn.borland.com/
Borland Software Corporation - www.borland.com/ - Excellence Endures
Enabling our customers to move into the future without abandoning their past
homepages.borland.com/aohlsson/disclaimer_ani.gif
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

David Clegg <dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com>wrote in
Quote
I was surprised that no-one had submitted a
work-around for it, so I did that also.
My workaround doesn't show up. I am assuming it needs to go through some
sort of approval process, correct?
So here it is in all its glory (works in D5) :
- Ensure Remote Debug Symbols are generated (Project|Options|Linker|Include
remote debug symbols)
- Open up a file that resides in the DLL's output directory, using the
IDE's open file dialog.
You should now be able to debug your DLL in the normal (pre XP) way.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com
{$IFDEF Alessandro}Italian{$ELSE}French{$ENDIF} is the language of love.
For everything else there's Delphi^h^h^h^h^h^h C#.
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Quote
>Some "users" seem not to use QC really.
>They probably just wanted to know what that thing is.
>So we probably have only 670 "real" users.

Inventing statistics?
I didn't begin - Anders did.
However I assume that not all QC users come back on a regular base.
They will never vote for anything.
Quote
>I would love to give more votes.
This is a digression from Anders' point and not very relevant, either.
He was asking for *more* votes (<g>).
Voting takes time. Not everybody takes that time.
To vote, you should have knowledge of virtually each bug in the database,
which is nearly impossible due to the sheer amount of reports.
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...
|On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:32:25 -0700, "Anders Ohlsson (Borland)"
|<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
|>
|>Certainly if something stinks *really* bad it must be voted on by tons of people
|>who run into these issues.
|>
|
|I don't know if I am representative but after taking 6-12 months off
|from the newsgroups I returned and people were talking about QC and I
|had no idea what it was. After getting a link I downloaded the
|Windows client and had no idea how to use it, search for a bug, get a
|list by priority, etc. Furthermore, I couldn't find any concise
|documentation showing how to use the thing in what could be considered
|a 'common' manner. Maybe it is just me but I am usually pretty good at
|this kind of thing and even often provided tech support for products
|I've never seen before.
|
|Maybe 'tons of people' don't even know QC exists and those that do
|don't have the time/gumption to use it effectively.
I'd second this. There are perhaps tens of thousands who don't have time to download
and learn this client interface, and therefore were not counted. By forcing QC
through this process, perhaps thousands of us were silenced prematurely on the
different QC issues. To date, I haven't reported any bugs because it really is a
steep learning curve and haven't gone up to it to do. How complex can a web-
interface be for voting on such issues? I don't even know what the issues were until
John Kaster and other people here spelled it out. I can not simply fing them with the
custom client interface downloaded from QC.
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Quote
I don't know how many people will vote for BiDi issues, but I guess that
I suggest you get all of your Development, QA and Support team members
in your company to create BDN accounts and vote for the QC entry that
you create that deals with BiDi. That will drive up your initial
vote counts.
Robert Love
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Quote
I'd second this. There are perhaps tens of thousands who don't have time
to download
and learn this client interface, and therefore were not counted. By
forcing QC
through this process, perhaps thousands of us were silenced prematurely on
the
different QC issues. To date, I haven't reported any bugs because it
really is a
steep learning curve and haven't gone up to it to do. How complex can a
web-
interface be for voting on such issues?
There is a web interface, if you go to qc.borland.com click on
qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/ under "Public beta: Web client"
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Anders Ohlsson (Borland) writes:
Quote
OK. So I figured it would be an incredibly easy task to get the worst
stinky bugs (imagine SpongeBob's sundae here)...

Quality Central (QC) *is* the way that you give us feedback on what
sucks. So I go can look at qc.borland.com/ where the top 10
voted issues are listed.

Certainly if something stinks *really* bad it must be voted on by
tons of people who run into these issues.
Assuming tons of people are aware of QC and have any trust left that
Borland still cares about Delphi users. IMHO this isn't the situation at
the moment.
Quote
OK, so let's go through them and let's see what we have...
---8<---
OK, so we have 2 bugs in the Top 10 that could probably be fixed in a
That's because you've so easily discarded several of the bugs as "not
for patch" and moved on. No, those issues are important and Borland
should address them. Call it a patch, a fix, an update, a service pack,
whatever. But don't shrug it off to the next (costly) major version,
becuase we have already paid for this version to work.
Quote
I would like to see 8 more to make a Top 10 list of *bugs* that
should be fixed in a patch before I start yelling in core team that
something is really wrong and needs attention.

That means that you guys need to VOTE, and if you have an issue that
isn't in QC, then write the report and VOTE for it.
I have created one of the QC reports in the top 10 (#2378), only to have
it rot uselessly in QC for 9 months till someone got it Opened. Will it
be any different with my next report?
Quote
So, please REPORT and then VOTE. Then tell everyone else to do the
same. Then we can see what needs to be fixed.

By all means, feel free to reply to this thread with extremely stinky
bugs - I need the QC number for them, please... Then other people
can start voting for them if they agree.
Please help me figure out how to report this problem. I made a decision
for the company to use Delphi, partly based on the claim that Delphi
supports BiDi.
However we later discovered that Delphi supports BiDi only with some
components, while other important components (eg. TreeViews,
ActionBands, Rave) either have bugs in their BiDi support or they don't
have any BiDi support.
How should I go about reporting this? I would like to file it as one bug
"Delphi BiDi support should be fixed across the board and tested by QA
prople who know what BiDi should do"
Quote
When we have 10 - or at least more than 2 - highly voted bugs we can
talk about me going to core team for some yelling and screaming
about a Delphi 7 patch.
I don't know how many people will vote for BiDi issues, but I guess that
not many. However I know that I got my company to pay for BiDi support
that's only half there. How will this be factored Borland's decision to
address BiDi problems?
Eyal.
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Joe Real writes:
Quote
I would really love to vote, but I am having difficulty finding information where to
vote or how to use the client interface.
I'd appreciate suggestions on making the links more prominent without
resorting to blinking, huge text. This is what is at the top of the
qc.borland.com page with large fonts for the headers:
Welcome to QualityCentral!
If you don't know what QualityCentral is for, see the the project
introduction. Additional articles are the public beta announcement and
calculating the community point spread, which introduces a discussion on
the rating and classification system for QualityCentral.
Public beta: Web client
The browser interface is now available for beta testing. You can open it
by going to qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/. See the beta announcement
for more information on the web client.
Download the Windows client
You can download the windows GUI client from
qc.borland.com/qc/BCDownloadCGI.exe/. This is the client that has
implemented most of the features for QualityCentral.
Quote
Do you have a simpler web-alternative instead of the custom client?
Yes. See the very first subheading.
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
$1280/$50K: homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish: qc.borland.com * Get source
codecentral.borland.com
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
Ask John Kaster, he is good at making those videos, and will certainly
shoot his "baby" :-)
While I appreciate the acknowledgement, this is actually doing QC a
disservice. There are *many* people involved in QC, it is now Borland's
official public bug tracking system and has been since January, QC
clients will be appearing in future IDE releases, and over 10% of all
Borland employees are now QC users.
Calling it "my baby" is actually quite dismissive given the level of
attention QC gets from Borland.
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
$1280/$50K: homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish: qc.borland.com * Get source
codecentral.borland.com
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

2. It has nothing to do with Delphi - optional parameters in COM are a
completely different beast. This misunderstanding is the reason this bug
exists to begin with.
3. Normally that would not be a big deal (besides doing something which is
absolutely uncessary, .i.e. sloppy) - but since there are type libraries
that Delphi 7 cannot modify, changing the host app will force Delphi to attempt to
refresh the implementation and die. I hate when that happens, especially
when Delphi screws up the class implementations (see #1) and I have to
refresh the source from a backup. *If* I happen to have a backup.
4. Well, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Say, I don't want to have that
particular interface implemented, or I want to move the implementation to a
different unit.
Dmitry Streblechenko (MVP)
www.dimastr.com/
OutlookSpy - Outlook, CDO
and MAPI Developer Tool
"Robert Love" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
>1. Read/Write/Write-By-Ref properties: Delphi 7 swapped the naming convention
for
>the write/write-by-ref properties, which (obviously) produces compiler
>errors if you edit a D5 project in D7

Can you add this to QC? So it can be rated and voted on.

>2. Optional parameters - whose idea was it to add an extra check to only
>allow the last parameters to be optional? This is certainly true in
Delphi,
>but not in COM. Worse than that, if you have an out parameter (function
>result), you will not be able to make any parameters optional unless you
>also make the function result out parameter optional. Even if you can
make
>some parameters optional, the modifier is not persisted.

How is this a bug? it is a documented language feature and behavior.

However, if you add it to QC maybe others would agree and you could
get a feature request passed in the next release.

>3. Change the hosting app in Run|Parameters and save the project - the
type
>library is recreated and source files are refreshed. Why?

I don't consider this a bug, what is the problem with refereshing the
type libary at any time?

>4. There is no way to enable/disable whether Delphi updates the Delphi
class
>implementation if you modify a type library.

Why is this a problem, I like having it modify the code for me
automagically.

>I understand that .Net is more important for Borland and is certainly
more
>fun to work with, but we (people who still live in the old Win32 world
and
>have no plans to go to .Net any time soon) could really use some bug
fixes
>:-)

If the bugs are not reported how will they be fixed. If your
suggestions are not tracked how will they ever make it on the possible
future features list?

Robert Love
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

So does this mean logging bugs in QC is not enough and one now has to vote
for bugs to be fixed?
Let me put it this way. Not all bugs are logged in QC so what you have in QC
is a short list anyway.
A bug is a bug. Someone took the time to make the entry. Now we need people
to vote on it as well? that is not fair.
I'm sorry I don't mean to be inconsiderate here and I truly understand that
you guys need to know which bugs are most important to people etc.
1. But how many Delphi programmer have registered in QC?
2. How many people visit *this* NG?
3. How many visit Borland NGs?
4. Finally how many Delphi licenses have you sold?
FWIW, we have products of our own and we have a QC like system as well. Our
customers expect that if they've logged it in our system it *will be fixed
in the next release (and we releases every 3 months. Feature requests are
another story. Those need to be prioritized.
--
Shiv R. Kumar
The Delphi Apostle
www.matlus.com
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Karlheinz Späth writes:
Quote
I didn't begin - Anders did.
Uh, no -- Anders number were provided by me from looking at the database.
Quote
However I assume that not all QC users come back on a regular base.
Participation is only going to increase.
Quote
To vote, you should have knowledge of virtually each bug in the database,
which is nearly impossible due to the sheer amount of reports.
So again, participation must be increased. Furthermore, people are not
even using all the votes they are provided, by a long shot.
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
$1280/$50K: homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish: qc.borland.com * Get source
codecentral.borland.com
 

Re: What are the Top 10 stinkiest bugs in Delphi 7?

Quote
>If you (Borland) will show [t]hat QC works
We already have. Repeatedly.
>(for Delphi project)
Do not brake my words apart
sentence was: "If Borland will show that QC works (for Delphi project)"
so
Quote
333 closed reports.
65 withdrawn reports.
how many belong to Delphi
and how many were closed or withdrawn because of luck of information
(Do not count points which are not yours)
Quote
Whaddya know. QC is *already* working for Delphi!
For which version?
Quote
>by issuing a
>updates, then people will start to vote

There will always be people raising the requirements level for QC to be
"working". And Borland participation in QC is always increasing, and
integration of it into the product cycle is also increasing. So it will
only get better.
Oh, until then there will be no updates:
"oh, you know, you are lazy users, you don't want to vote, so it is really
hard to decide for us what should we fix"
this giving you a good excuse to do not do anything, no more no less.
Anders post a list of reports with high votes - fix it
A and B, even C MUST BE fixed, there is no need for us to prioritize : bug
is a bug.
If during last 12 months you did release a patches, then there will be no
complains.
or you will be right in your "prioritizing" proposal, but if you do nothing
at all, then do not pretend to have a "nice face"
Quote
>This happened only if YOU do, not after we do.

Borland is already doing stuff. Over 10% of our employees are QC users.
Over 98% of *those* employees are Dev Support, QA, or R&D.
how many of them are from Delphi department if there is still one
You like arguments, please participate in answers for a list Anders did post
and we updated.
- Use QC!!!
- get a list of most wanted reports
- for A, B, C - provide a reason why it couldn't be done, even if it should
be done
- for D, E, F - if it will be done
- invite R&D, discuss with them
- make a schedule, make a release
- everybody happy, Borland looks nice, customers shut their mouth
Quote
>We did enough, I think
I hope you start *noticing* more.
Can you point me this place where I can notice it?
Download area for Delphi isn't a place
Quote
We will also do things to increase the statistical analysis for QC so
people can see how the trends are improving. It all takes time.
Contract a person who knows a statistics methods, spend couple hours with
him, it could really help.
--
Serge Dosyukov
Borland Delphi 6 product certified
MCP
"Programming is not a job; it is a style of life."