Board index » delphi » Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Serge Dosyukov

Delphi Developer
 

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...


2004-01-17 02:02:33 PM
delphi156
"David Clegg" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Serge Dosyukov writes:

>MS VS.Net has:
 >- mobile support (we are not a Java shop at this point, but do use VC
 >and VB)
I assume you mean the Compact Framework. If so, Borland cannot be
blamed for this. This is solely the doings of Microsoft.
yes, sorry, still .net
Quote
>- MS Reporting Services in near future
Key words *near future*, i.e VS.NET 2003 does not have it.
already available for beta testers. Native support for MS SQLServer...
advertised everywhere...
will be here soon enough...
Quote
>- ADO.Net today
Delphi 8 hase ADO.NET, *and* BDP
not out of the box for VCL
hate to do hacking for every computer... and has issues discussed in this NG
Quote
>- Cristal Report today
Delphi has Rave Reports, which from all accounts (I've not used it
myself), is a more than capable reporting solution.
not industry standard
Quote
>- native XP look and feel
For the IDE, or apps created with it? If the former, I actually think
the VS.NET IDE looks dated compared to Delphi 8. For the latter, that
is simply not true. You have exactly the same support for XP themes, as
the .NET Framework provides this.
for apps, themes are not only what make your application XP L&F
some number of components are missing still (grids, toolbars, etc)
Quote
>- more often updates
For their dev tools? I don't think so. And in fact, their latest XP
*update* trashed my VS.NET installation, making it impossible to create
new projects. Hey no problems, right? After all, that is what System
no this is a problem
are you talking about SP which is comming? not yet released...
Quote
Restore was designed for. So I duely un-did the SP install using System
Restore, which promised it wouldn't touch my application data files.
CCS? Usually helps
Quote
Mostly true, with the exception of files with a .cs extension! Argh! 2
days work lost!
Doing all updates, didn't see such thing, but will try to get everything
installed from MSDN
 
 
Serge Dosyukov

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 02:34:58 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

"David Clegg" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Serge Dosyukov writes:

>MS VS.Net has:
 >- mobile support (we are not a Java shop at this point, but do use VC
 >and VB)
I assume you mean the Compact Framework. If so, Borland cannot be
blamed for this. This is solely the doings of Microsoft.
yes, sorry, still .net
saw another comment about this... Borland was first who licensed .Net FW...
it is a time to get CF as well
Quote
>- MS Reporting Services in near future
Key words *near future*, i.e VS.NET 2003 does not have it.
already available for beta testers. Native support for MS SQLServer...
advertised everywhere...
will be here soon enough...
Quote
>- ADO.Net today
Delphi 8 hase ADO.NET, *and* BDP
not out of the box for VCL
hate to do hacking for every computer... and has issues discussed in this NG
Quote
>- Cristal Report today
Delphi has Rave Reports, which from all accounts (I've not used it
myself), is a more than capable reporting solution.
not an industry standard
Quote
>- native XP look and feel
For the IDE, or apps created with it? If the former, I actually think
the VS.NET IDE looks dated compared to Delphi 8. For the latter, that
is simply not true. You have exactly the same support for XP themes, as
the .NET Framework provides this.
for apps, themes are not only what make your application XP L&F
some number of components are required and even if MS doe not have it is a
time to update some of the legacy components to be more up to date (grid
(sorting - available in VS), toolbars, docking)...
for some reasons ActionBars and Menus disapear from Delphi 8 versus D7...
Quote
>- more often updates
For their dev tools? I don't think so. And in fact, their latest XP
*update* trashed my VS.NET installation, making it impossible to create
new projects. Hey no problems, right? After all, that is what System
no this is a problem
are you talking about SP which is comming? not yet released...
Quote
Restore was designed for. So I duely un-did the SP install using System
Restore, which promised it wouldn't touch my application data files.
CCS? Usually helps
Quote
Mostly true, with the exception of files with a .cs extension! Argh! 2
days work lost!
Doing all updates, didn't see such thing, but will try to get everything
installed from MSDN
 
Andrew Rybenkov

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 02:35:17 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Quote
With the Delphi Language guide and since he can read VB(Visual Basic) there are
plenty of dotnet resources that can be found.
Ok, here is the analogy: :)
An Englishman decides to study Italian language. He buys expensive "Italian Course",
opens it and see:
1) Italian grammar book;
2) Agatha Christie's book (in original language);
Amused he calls to the support and they say: "C'mon, man, if you want learn to _speak_
in Italian there are plenty cheap Spanish tapes around."
 

Tom Reiertsen

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 02:37:24 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

"Ryan VanIderstine" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>skrev i melding
Quote
This noted in QC#6975. Go and vote on it. The problem appears as open and
has been submitted internally (not sure that means it is something that
will
get fixed). If you read the report you can see why it is broken.

Huh?
I think your QC# number is wrong. The report 6975 doesn't mention ADO.Net at
all.
Best regards,
Tom Reiertsen,
Reiertsen Software Systems
 
Eric Grange

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 03:50:46 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Quote
What problems are in Delphi 7 that think need fixing?
This would get a "ROFL" if it wasn't so sad.
Eric
 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 05:45:55 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Bruce Lomasky writes:
Quote
It is obvious that Delphi 8 is:

* NOT AN UPGRADE OF Delphi 7 but Instead a new product LOOSELY based on D7.
This should really be called Version 1.0 of Borlands .NET product.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
The product was intended as a Win32 and a .NET version in one package
(one IDE). Due to time constraints, the Win32 part was put back for now.
But they have announced an update to Delphi for Win32 as well. It is not
clear in what form, though.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI?" -- unknown
 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 05:52:57 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Serge Dosyukov writes:
Quote
Then, I'd like to avoid general discussions about how compatible
Delphi.net is with latest products.

Lets just say then:

1. Delphi.Net is a platform for future development for .net (same was
true for Delphi 2 against Delphi 1), it is not a port of Delphi to .net
It is for great parts a port of Delphi to .NET. The language, large parts
of the VCL, etc. have been ported (and extended, in some cases). Some of
the missing parts will be added later, some may not.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is,
of course, in a state of sin."
- John von Neumann (1903-1957)
 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 06:03:43 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Ian Mar{*word*249}s writes:
Quote
>What problems are in Delphi 7 that think need fixing? The majority of the
 >issues I have seen are really requests for new features.
 >
 That's only a regrettable side effect from the voting system. I can't
give you a list right now because I gave up logging each error since a
long time ago.
Hmmm... it looks as if this somewhat reduces your chances of getting them
fixed, though. Borland can only fix bugs it is aware of.
And nothing prevents people from voting for bugs right now, and moving
these votes back to feature requests later on again.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Pascal /n./ A programming language named after a man who would turn
over in his grave if he knew about it." -- From the Jargon File
 
David Clegg

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 06:30:36 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Serge Dosyukov writes:
Quote
not out of the box for VCL
That doesn't change the fact that Delphi 8 has full support for ADO.NET. I
haven't tried it myself, but what makes it difficult to use them in a
D8 VCL application?
Quote
not an industry standard
So what? Since when does industry standard=best tool?
Quote
no this is a problem
are you talking about SP which is comming? not yet released...
It was an XP SP I installed this week which was meant to address
security concerns (aren't they all <g>) in MDAC components.
Quote
CCS? Usually helps
Whats CCS? At this stage, it appears the files are gone for good, so
I'm open to suggestions. I tried various file recovery utilities, and
this was to no avail. My initial attempt to rollback the rollback (<g>)
failed, but I will try again on Monday.
I know, its ultimately my bad for not being more vigilant with backups
and Source Control check-ins <g>
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com
Quality Central. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
qc.borland.com
 
Nick Hodges (TeamB)

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 09:19:34 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Lauchlan M writes:
Quote

I thought that Borland had done the development for providing .NET CF
mobile support in Delphi, but could not include it in the product due
to licencing arrangements not being finished yet with MS for the CF
stuff.
That I don't know. I have never heard that.
--
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
Lemanix Corporation - (www.lemanix.com)
Improve the quality of Delphi! Get your bugs into QC:
qc.borland.com
 
Nick Hodges (TeamB)

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 09:22:26 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Serge Dosyukov writes:
Quote
games.... <g>... Not out of the box
Why it is not done by Borland?
I don't know.
Quote
Was ADOExpress removed at last minute or
planed to be add next week?
Micheal Swindell of Borland had an excellent post explaining +exactly+
what happened with ADOExpress. It is here: tinyurl.com/3x7ka
--
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
Lemanix Corporation - (www.lemanix.com)
Improve the quality of Delphi! Get your bugs into QC:
qc.borland.com
 
David Smith

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 09:30:58 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Craig van Nieuwkerk writes:
Quote
From my point of view, the majority of issues with Delphi 7 are general stability.
These issues are incredibly hard to reproduce with any pattern, even though
they happen often, so I doubt many are entered into QC. Anyone who denies
this doesn't really give Delphi a workout in a production environment or is
lying.
I'm not lying when I say that Delphi 7 is more stable for me than the older
ones. Almost everytime something has happened, it is been part of some
IDE add-in. When I removed them or updated, the problems where gone.
Yes, sometimes the IDE hangs itself, but the hangs in D5 happened more
often and were more severe.
David
 
Nick Hodges (TeamB)

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 09:43:48 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Craig van Nieuwkerk writes:
Quote
Anyone who denies
this doesn't really give Delphi a workout in a production environment
or is lying.
Uhm.....
--
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
Lemanix Corporation - (www.lemanix.com)
Improve the quality of Delphi! Get your bugs into QC:
qc.borland.com
 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 09:50:30 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Craig van Nieuwkerk writes:
Quote
From my point of view, the majority of issues with Delphi 7 are general
stability. These issues are incredibly hard to reproduce with any
pattern, even though they happen often, so I doubt many are entered
into QC. Anyone who denies this doesn't really give Delphi a workout in
a production environment or is lying.
Ot the person denying it simply doesn't experiecne the same problems
because of different circumstances (different OS, different hardware,
different components, etc.etc.).
I think it is hard to conclude that because you, and others, experience
problems that everyone should have them, or isn't using the product in
full.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims."
- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)
 
Nick Hodges (TeamB)

Delphi Developer

2004-01-17 10:07:56 PM

Re: What Delphi 8 really is...

Ian Mar{*word*249}s writes:
Quote
No, I don't. This is a Personal (registered) edition, with Update
Pack 1. I don't know if this matters.
Ahh, no, the personal version doesn't have a lot of those amenities.
--
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
Lemanix Corporation - (www.lemanix.com)
Improve the quality of Delphi! Get your bugs into QC:
qc.borland.com