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Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?


2004-05-21 04:58:22 AM
delphi38
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:
Quote
Did you actually ever try to port something from, say, Delphi 7 to D8
for .NET? It is not as hard as you make it look.
With MS Visual Studio, developers *expect* to rewrite applications
between VS version releases. With Borland, I *expect* to hardly
have to do anything, if at all, maybe some ifdef's in my third
party component source.
That is certainly not the case with any application that uses
TADOXXX components, supplied from Borland. At that point, you're
faced with a pretty significant rewrite, IMO, which is far
different than the sales pitch and past practice.
-Brion
 
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

Quote
Did you actually ever try to port something from, say, Delphi 7 to Delphi 8 for .NET?
The JCL & JVCL are ready for a demonstration of your grandmastery,
as are several other projects if these are too easy or unworthy
of your skills.
Quote
It is not as hard as you make it look.
Try your hand.
Z
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

zedd writes:
Quote
>Did you actually ever try to port something from, say, Delphi 7 to Delphi 8 for
>.NET?

The JCL & JVCL are ready for a demonstration of your grandmastery,
as are several other projects if these are too easy or unworthy
of your skills.

>It is not as hard as you make it look.

Try your hand.
I had been thinking of the JCL, but many of the things in the JCL would
not be needed. I could try, though, even though the assembly parts
could be a problem. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

zedd writes:
Quote
>Did you actually ever try to port something from, say, Delphi 7 to Delphi 8 for
>.NET?

The JCL & JVCL are ready for a demonstration of your grandmastery,
as are several other projects if these are too easy or unworthy
of your skills.
Anyway, like Craig said, it would be a lot easier than rewriting them
from scratch. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:
Quote
>The JCL & JVCL are ready for a demonstration of your grandmastery,
>as are several other projects if these are too easy or unworthy
>of your skills.
Anyway, like Craig said, it would be a lot easier than rewriting them
from scratch. <g>
I'm just curious here, could you guesstimate how much rewriting would
be needed to port JCL/JVCL to an AMD64/IA-32e native Delphi compiler?
Be sure to draw comparisons between what is needed to port it to .NET
and what is needed to port it to AMD64/IA-32e.
Will
--
Want a 64-bit Delphi compiler for AMD64 / IA-32e? Vote here--
qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/details
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

Will DeWitt Jr. writes:
Quote
I'm just curious here, could you guesstimate how much rewriting would
be needed to port JCL/JVCL to an AMD64/IA-32e native Delphi compiler?
Be sure to draw comparisons between what is needed to port it to .NET
and what is needed to port it to AMD64/IA-32e.
I guess the .NET port would be harder for the programmer. .NET is of
course more different than Win64. It is an entirely different platform,
with GC and some restrictions, and a completely different API.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:
Quote
That never proved to be a problem. In Delphi, I use this like always:

property DooDah: Integer read FDooDah write SetDooDah;

and both FDooDah and SetDooDah can still be private. Delphi will
ensure that set_ and get_ methods will be generated for those who
don't have Delphi. Inside Delphi, you can do what you always did.
We are talking in the context of language neutral code. Not just
delphi code. I know what the compiler does.
--
JED, QC - Win32 Client for Quality Central:
www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/
Alpha 2 coming soon...
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

JED writes:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:

>That never proved to be a problem. In Delphi, I use this like
>always:
>
>property DooDah: Integer read FDooDah write SetDooDah;
>
>and both FDooDah and SetDooDah can still be private. Delphi will
>ensure that set_ and get_ methods will be generated for those who
>don't have Delphi. Inside Delphi, you can do what you always did.

We are talking in the context of language neutral code. Not just
delphi code. I know what the compiler does.
Are we? I am talking in the context of Delphi. The get_ and set_
generated code is language neutral, and compliant.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

JED writes:
Quote
We are talking in the context of language neutral code. Not just
delphi code. I know what the compiler does.
What is the problem then?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:
Quote
Are we? I am talking in the context of Delphi. The get_ and set_
generated code is language neutral, and compliant.
True but I don't think a COBOL .NET programmer is going to read the
generated IL of a delphi assembly.
I never mentioned anything about Delphi .NET not being COMPLIANT either.
I get the impression that spending all your time in non-tech has made
you a bit paranoid and defensive about comments about Borland and
Delphi etc when in fact, I wasn't having a dig at either but more at
the framework and the fact that certain methods are required to be case
sensitive and match a specific prefix, in order to say that the
framework is language neutral.
--
JED, QC - Win32 Client for Quality Central:
www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/
Alpha 2 coming soon...
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:
Quote
JED writes:

>We are talking in the context of language neutral code. Not just
>delphi code. I know what the compiler does.

What is the problem then?
THERE IS NO PROBLEM.
IT WAS A STATEMENT. Not everything has to BE A PROBLEM you know.
--
JED, QC - Win32 Client for Quality Central:
www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/
Alpha 2 coming soon...
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote

That is certainly not the case with any application that uses
TADOXXX components, supplied from Borland. At that point, you're
faced with a pretty significant rewrite, IMO, which is far
different than the sales pitch and past practice.
They are already working on ADO.NET and it will be in the next release,
so no need to rewrite, unless your are in a terrible hurry to get to NET.
David
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

JED writes:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:

>Are we? I am talking in the context of Delphi. The get_ and set_
>generated code is language neutral, and compliant.

True but I don't think a COBOL .NET programmer is going to read the
generated IL of a delphi assembly.
No, I guess to the COBOL programmer, the get_ and set_ methods will be
seen as the getter and setter of a property. A good language will not
show them as extra methods. Some will.
Quote
I get the impression that spending all your time in non-tech has made
you a bit paranoid and defensive about comments about Borland and
Delphi etc when in fact, I wasn't having a dig at either but more at
the framework and the fact that certain methods are required to be
case sensitive and match a specific prefix, in order to say that the
framework is language neutral.
I got that. I am not paranoid.
It's the same as with overloaded operators, which must also follow a
naming pattern, or with events, which have an add_ and remove_ prefix.
I don't quite see the problem there. A good language will hide these
details, if required.
IOW, the fact that such methods have special names is not much
different than the fact that C++ names are usually mangled, or that
cdecl API names often have a leading underscore, in Win32 or other
platforms.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

JED writes:
Quote
>What is the problem then?

THERE IS NO PROBLEM.

IT WAS A STATEMENT. Not everything has to BE A PROBLEM you know.
No need to shout. You made a statement that the getters and setters had
to have the same visibility as the property, just because some
languages did not recognize properties. It looked like you had a
problem with that, even if the problem in this case was only your
dislike for such a solution.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
 

Re: Is it time for a real 64-bit Delphi Survey?

Quote
>Not sure, perhaps you could try to get some Team-B support or get
>someone to blog about it. The problem with this kind of survey is
>that it really isn't "market research".
Richard Grossman writes:
Like when we all filled out a survey claiming we had our wallets open
for Kylix...
I'm pretty interesting what was main cause "not to buy Kylix". I'm
bought it and then understood my mistake, how about those who
successfully avoided this?