Board index » delphi » Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix


2003-10-21 01:28:27 AM
delphi255
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:
Quote
I have nothing that would be worth hackling, and that is why I am not
afraid of being hacked. Same with my clinic. Everyone knows that I
don't have money, gold or anything else worth stealing, in my clinic.
You have a computer with a network connection. I could take it over, and
use it to attack my enemies, or to send spam. If you're on an always on
connection (hopefully using a cable modem or DSL line), I can use your
machine to host {*word*40} or pirated software and keep my identity secret.
You might also have patient billing information, which I could then sell
for a few quick bucks.
 
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

Quote
have money, gold or anything else worth stealing, in my clinic.
What do you fill and cap teeth with? <G>
Follow up set to: borland.public.off-topic
Robert Love
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

Mike Swaim writes:
Quote
You have a computer with a network connection. I could take it over,
and use it to attack my enemies, or to send spam. If you're on an
always on connection (hopefully using a cable modem or DSL line), I can
use your machine to host {*word*40} or pirated software and keep my identity
secret.
Not for long. <g>
And no patient stuff on this one. The one that contains it is not online,
and not here.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Few things are harder to put up with than a good example."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910)
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

DRS writes:
Quote

You should always cite the mesage-id. it is never fluff.
Because?
--
Kristofer
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

Kristofer Skaug <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Quote
DRS writes:
>
>You should always cite the mesage-id. it is never fluff.

Because?
Because it is an always relevant link. When you cite a post out of sequence
you should always cite its message-id.
--
A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

DRS writes:
Quote
Kristofer Skaug <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
>DRS writes:
>>
>>You should always cite the mesage-id. it is never fluff.
>
>Because?

Because it is an always relevant link. When you cite a post out of
sequence you should always cite its message-id.
Do you remember the message ID or manually look it up? I would just a soon let
my newsreader handle it by pulling it out of the headers.
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

DRS writes:
Quote

Because it is an always relevant link. When you cite a post out of
sequence you should always cite its message-id.
When this happens, it is almost always a quote from within the same
thread. I know of a few rare exceptions to this (for my own part: maybe
one in 500 posts or so), and for these cases I agree it would be
corteous/correct to provide the message ID reference. However, even then,
unless you somehow modify the quote (e.g. for editorial or
debate-tactical reasons <eg>, editing the quote so much that it becomes
unrecognisable), it should generally be possible for the interested
reader to find the original post by searching on author name, newsgroup,
thread title and/or specific sentences in the text.
In the standard case (like here), where quotes are taken directly from
the previous message in the sequence, your own reply-message header
already contains this information so it *should be* redundant info to
include this in the body of the message.
--
Kristofer
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

Kristofer Skaug <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
3f9663c8$XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Quote
DRS writes:
>
>Because it is an always relevant link. When you cite a post out of
>sequence you should always cite its message-id.

When this happens, it is almost always a quote from within the same
thread.
Not by a long shot. Usually it is the opposite, you're quoting some message
from long ago or whatever.
Quote
I know of a few rare exceptions to this (for my own part:
maybe one in 500 posts or so), and for these cases I agree it would be
corteous/correct to provide the message ID reference. However, even
then, unless you somehow modify the quote (e.g. for editorial or
debate-tactical reasons <eg>, editing the quote so much that it
becomes unrecognisable), it should generally be possible for the
interested reader to find the original post by searching on author
name, newsgroup, thread title and/or specific sentences in the text.
The message-id is canonic.
Quote
In the standard case (like here), where quotes are taken directly from
the previous message in the sequence, your own reply-message header
already contains this information so it *should be* redundant info to
include this in the body of the message.
There's should be and there's is. You're taking out useful information and
it's unnecessary and even a breach of netiquette.
--
A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

DRS writes:
Quote

Not by a long shot. Usually it is the opposite, you're quoting some
message from long ago or whatever.
I don't see evidence of this statement in this newsgroup.
Take a count.
Quote
There's should be and there's is. You're taking out useful
information and it is unnecessary and even a breach of netiquette.
I've taken a count here in this newsgroup:
100 out of 151 distinct posters (i.e. 2 out of 3) systematically or
occasionally delete the reference message ID out of their replies. I'd
venture to guess that a number of the 51 remaining just leave it in
because it is the Outlook Express hard coded behavior, and they're too
lazy to start rabid editing just to reduce the "noise".
Furthermore, all TeamB members and Borland representatives
systematically delete the reply-messageID.
So... if it were so useful, how come I never see anyone complain? Why
isn't it a mandatory directive of the official NG guidelines, for
example?
--
Kristofer
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

Kristofer Skaug <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
3f96dca7$XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Quote
DRS writes:
>
>Not by a long shot. Usually it is the opposite, you're quoting some
>message from long ago or whatever.

I don't see evidence of this statement in this newsgroup.
Take a count.
Citing out of sequence?
Quote
>There's should be and there's is. You're taking out useful
>information and it is unnecessary and even a breach of netiquette.

I've taken a count here in this newsgroup:
100 out of 151 distinct posters (i.e. 2 out of 3) systematically or
occasionally delete the reference message ID out of their replies. I'd
How many of them are using idiot news readers that do it automatically?
Quote
venture to guess that a number of the 51 remaining just leave it in
because it is the Outlook Express hard coded behavior, and they're too
It's one thing OE gets right.
Quote
lazy to start rabid editing just to reduce the "noise".
It's not noise.
Quote
Furthermore, all TeamB members and Borland representatives
systematically delete the reply-messageID.
They shouldn't. Furthermore you shouldn't make assumptions about why that
is so. Have you asked any of them?
Quote
So... if it were so useful, how come I never see anyone complain? Why
isn't it a mandatory directive of the official NG guidelines, for
example?
Why isn't bottom-posting mandatory either?
--
A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
 

Re: [OT] in the interest of NGetiquette - OE-quotefix

DRS writes:
Quote
Kristofer Skaug wrote
>Take a count.

Citing out of sequence?
Yes.
Quote
>100 out of 151 distinct posters (i.e. 2 out of 3) systematically or
>occasionally delete the reference message ID out of their replies.

How many of them are using idiot news readers that do it
automatically?
I'd guess more than half, but I haven't looked at the headers to find
out.
Quote
It's one thing OE gets right.
Somehow I knew you'd say that <g>
Quote
>Furthermore, all TeamB members and Borland representatives
>systematically delete the reply-messageID.

They shouldn't. Furthermore you shouldn't make assumptions about why
that is so.
I don't think I did, I merely observed a behaviour.
Quote
Have you asked any of them?
No, it never occurred to me to ask.
However, t{*word*220} the headers automatically saves a lot of manual work,
and TeamB people do a lot of posting, so they can very well use any
automation they can get their hands on. That *might* explain why they
all do this.
Quote
Why isn't bottom-posting mandatory either?
beats me, it should be <g>.
--
Kristofer