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Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32


2003-10-08 10:57:18 AM
delphi141
Quote
>However, since it looks to me like Delphi 7 maybe will be the
>last main W32 release, it will increase its value for me.

Are you still continuing to give the impression that "Delphi for Win32 is
dead" or some derivate of it?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
That's my impression too. And it is only an ill informed impressioin. (I
have only been using Borland products since 1987 or so.)
Borland will deprecate Win32 VCL when they think the time is right.
Ray
 
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

"Kristofer Skaug" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
"John Kaster (Borland)" wrote
>
>1. Delphi 7 will be bundled with Octane

That's nice, I suppose, except I just bought Delphi 7 Enterprise. :-(

>2. There will be an update to Delphi for Win32 after Octane ships

In the past there has been a grace period. If you bought the prior version
within x months you got the next version. Things change, but it can not hurt
to ask.
Ray
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

"John Kaster (Borland)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Do you not see how monumentally
difficult it makes any attempt at open communication when I know that
every single word I write will be analyzed and re-analyzed and turned
upside-down and inside-out
I see both sides of this one John. For those who don't have big budgets,
the search for clarity in a relativley large expenditure is understandable.
I also see how such nit-picking can eat up your time and push Borland to
give us less information rather than more.
I can see a middle ground. If reasonable persons would accept "I don't
know" and "we haven't decided yet" the lines of communication would be less
contentious and more productive.
and pigs would fly.
Ray
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Quote
Did you ever stop and consider that just maybe he's *right*? After all,
who's more likely to know more about Borland's customers than Borland and
its employees?
Uh, the customers?
Personalities and limitations of fatigue aside, if the tone of these posts
could be focused more positively I think we could all benefit. Borland
could get valuable input, we could get timely information and John could get
a break.
There I go being optimistic again
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Quote
Free copy notwithstanding, Whenever something is added as 'free' the
price
of that 'free' addon is placed into the product being sold.

So may look like a good deal, but is it?

Unless I miss my bet, the reproduction costs are next to nothing compared to
the R&D, marketing, etc costs of D7. Since those costs are already incurred
the "free" copy costs Borland (or you) very little.
Ray
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Hello, Ray!
You wrote on Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:36:53 -0700:
Quote
>Did you ever stop and consider that just maybe he's *right*? After all,
>who's more likely to know more about Borland's customers than Borland and
>its employees?

Uh, the customers?
Well, while a customer may know themselves as well as possibly other
customers they have contact with, it is hardly likely that they can get the
"big picture" that Borland could.
Quote
Personalities and limitations of fatigue aside, if the tone of these posts
could be focused more positively I think we could all benefit. Borland
could get valuable input, we could get timely information and John could
get a break.
Agreed.
Cheers,
Ignacio
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Quote
but I think it could be any of:
<snip>
Until we know more, it is nonsense speculating which it will be (although
I don't think that will stop some people here).
and THAT is the only prediction I do believe!
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Quote
So, uhm, why should we take this lack of clarification in a positive
way?

- Asbjørn
The nice thing about being a pessimist -- even when you are wrong you are
happy!
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Eyal writes:
Quote
An update,
Correct.
Quote
NOT a new version.
I never said this.
I am *very* precise in my statements on this newsgroup. I have been
forced to be. I know exactly what I said and what I was saying. What I
said is *precisely* what I meant.
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
Don't miss the best BorCon ever! info.borland.com/conf2003/
Add a feature/Fix a bug: qc.borland.com
Get source: codecentral.borland.com
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Quote
As per the other posts regarding this subject, it has not yet been
announced as to whether the update will be a patch or a new version,
although apparently the plan includes compiler changes, which usually
means a new version.

Thanks for the reply Dave.
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Quote
b) .Net may bring about the demise of M$ control over the
desktop - if any app can run on Linux why buy Windoze?
Lost me on that one... Doesn't MicroSoft have a significant interest in
.Net? Or are you saying they will trade their cash cows (.NET for Windows?)
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Eyal writes:
Quote
An update, NOT a new version.
Its both. I can not believe that people have problems reading Borland's
posts on this topic, although stating that there will be "an update"
implies it is a singular thing - either a patch or a new release but
not both. Going back through Borland's posts on the topic, we get the
following:
Anders Ohlsson (Borland) in the thread "Win32 is *not* killed" on 2 Oct
2003:
<QUOTE>
For Win32 developers there already is a solution - Delphi 7. Yes, it
should be updated, and it will, just not this year.
</QUOTE>
Anders Ohlsson (Borland) replying to Kristofer Skaug in the "Residue
questions about Delphi" thread on 3 Oct 2003:
<QUOTE>
Quote
3) Does this mean that there is a Delphi 7 Service Pack in the pipeline, at
the
very least?
Yes. At the very least.
</QUOTE>
Okay, so we've established that there will be a patch to Delphi 7. Now,
what about the new release? Anders Ohlsson (Borland) said in the thread
"Latest information on Octane and Delphi" on 2 Oct 2003:
<QUOTE>
We simply couldn't focus on delivering *both* a .NET and a new Win32
version *this* year - which is what the previous open letter said.
Win32 will come as soon as possible.
</QUOTE>
and the same thread on 3 OCt 2003:
<QUOTE>
Just because we have a new product doesn't mean another one is going
away.
</QUOTE>
I think there was another statement by a Borland rep about the coming
of the next release of Delphi as well, but I can not find it off hand.
Now, at the risk of throwing more unwarranted speculation into the mix,
here is my take on what has happened and is happening:
<SPECULATION>
It was more difficult to deliver .Net and Win32 Delphi in the one IDE
than Borland anticipated, and they have suffered a schedule slip. This
happens all the time in the software industry. Indeed, if they had have
made their stated goal for the delivery date, it would have been
unusual in the industry. So they are delivering the .Net side of things
on time. This is a good thing, as they need a Delphi .Net solution out
there for the people that need to go to .Net now. After Octane is
delivered, there will be a patch to Delphi 7. This is also a good
thing. Then, sometime next year, there will be an update to Delphi
Win32 to bring the language into line with the extensions/differences
added in the .Net release, enabling cross-platform code to be done
easier. This is also a good thing. Whether this is one IDE or two
remains to be seen.
As part of developing the IDE for Octane, there were able to plug in
the Microsoft C# compiler, forms designer, etc into an IDE to develop
C#Builder at a fraction of the cost of developing a full-blown
IDE/compiler/framework like Delphi. They were doing a lot of the work
anyway for Delphi and this gives them another language solution
supporting the default and popular language for the new platform that
is replacing Win32. The fact that the compiler etc were already
available enabled this IDE to be released earlier than Delphi.
Unsurprisingly, I think this is also a good thing. Just because there
is another language in Borland's product line does not mean Delphi is
dying. Borland has always been a multi-language company, and I would
have been surprised if they didn't have a solution for a popular
language like C#.
So we have a Delphi .Net solution, a service pack for Delphi 7 and a new
release for Delphi Win32 coming, plus a new IDE using the default
language of the .Net platform, C#.
Its all good.
</SPECULATION>
Let the flames commence... :)
Christopher Latta
btw, I focused on Anders' rather than John's posts as he posts less
often and I didn't want to spend all day on this, not for any sinister
reason.
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Not that this is a solution, but couldn't you give away your existing D7
license and use the one th st is bundled with Octane?
Or, better yet, sell it on e-Bay. I would be surprised if you couldn't get
at lease $1K for a legitimately licensed copy of D7. I watched several
of them go on e-bay, none for less than that IIRC.
"Jeff Molloy" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
I do not want another copy of D7. And apparently I cannot give it away
because from what I have heard on here so far is the licensing for Octane
may be the same one for the Delphi 7 copy. If I am wrong, please let me know.
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Quote
Just out of curiosity, is there a TeamB script or do you guys all think
alike?
LOL!!!
Actually in non-tech all those TeamB names are just nicknames of John Kaster.
Also to play "good/bad interrogator" he uses "Anders Ohlson" nickname (for good one).
;)
 

Re: Delphi for .NET and Win32

Quote
and pigs would fly.
Hmm, - haven't PIGs special copters?