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Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading


2007-05-04 06:06:59 AM
delphi93
David Clegg writes:
Quote
..properties with duplicated names
How is the compiler supposed to know which is which?
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Dave Nottage [TeamB] writes:
Quote
How is the compiler supposed to know which is which?
These properties are "virtual" rather than actual class properties, and
are emitted into the source file as attributes associated with the
property exposing the class at the relevant association end. So the
compiler doesn't need to know, but the code generator does, and this
situation is already catered for.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
cc.codegear.com/Author/72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug CodeGear about bugs.
qc.codegear.com
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

David Clegg writes:
Quote
These properties are "virtual" rather than actual class properties,
and are emitted into the source file as attributes associated with the
property exposing the class at the relevant association end. So the
compiler doesn't need to know, but the code generator does, and this
situation is already catered for.
Ah, ok.. so the OI needs "fixing" <g>
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Dave Nottage [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Ah, ok.. so the OI needs "fixing" <g>
<VoiceMode=Bobby Hill>
Thats what I am talking about!
</VoiceMode>
:-)
TBH, considering that ECO seems to be the only technology which abuses
the OI in this way, and considering the modelling experience and code
generation in EcoModeler is light years ahead of the Together
implementation, I would much rather see EcoModeler used as the default
design surface. Not sure what the likelihood of that is though, so
perhaps fixing the OI would be easier. :-)
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
cc.codegear.com/Author/72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug CodeGear about bugs.
qc.codegear.com
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Quote
If you can provide more detail I would be interested to know what
specifically is slow? Are you aware you can filter the palette by
simply typing when it has focus? Additionally, you can reorganize the
palette in a similar manner to Delphi 7 though the layout is plainly
different.
The filtering could be better implemented. It disappears once a component
has been dropped on a form, which really stumps productivity when you want
to plop a bunch of components from the same group. Example: database, table,
query etc components.
You end up doing "filter, select component, drop"... "filter, select
component, drop"... etc.
Oh, and it doesnt help that choosing a group name from the list (eg. click
mouse on "Data Access") actually misses and shows the previous group
instead.
--
Eivind Bakkestuen
Nexus Database Systems Pty Ltd
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
(Randy Magruder) writes:
Quote
I would NEVER go back to the old palette. Not in a million
ka-jillion years. Since I can type any substring immediately just
by focusing the palette) and auto-filter to the possible list of
matching components, I would NEVER go back. I don't know a lot of
people who like the old way better.. I am sure you're not alone, but
I personally am quite happy with the new palette.
Thanks - looks like I may eventually change my mind with some
perseverence!
Trevor
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

In article <4638fa76$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
(Nick Hodges (CodeGear)) writes:
Quote
Press F1 on TButton in the editor or focus on a button in the designer
and hit F1. WHat do you see?

The help for TButton! Ok, so now I can get to help for things on the
form...
So now tell me how, from this screen, do I get help on "Install
components"? Here, I press the Search button on the toolbar, I type
"Install components" into the box, press Search.
What do you see? I see MSDN help and "How to install SQL Server 2005
(Setup)" as my first top Delphi tip on installing components.
Quote
Switch to the Undocked Desktop.
How do I do that?
Quote
And if you want, choose the Floating
Designer in the Environment options.
On which panel in the options? The Environment Options in my copy of
D2007 doesn't appear to have this option on any of the panels. And Help
doesn't show anything that initially seems useful....
Sorry if I am appearing dim on this one.
Quote
What QC are we talking about here?
#35774.
Quote
Does that help?
Can I be cheeky and say that I will give all your suggestions a try over
the next few days/weeks and see how I get on?
Remember how hard it was for people to stop using WordStar conventions?
Hey, they're still buried deep in Delphi! We've used D1, D3, D5, and D7
since 1997 so my synapses have 10 years of unlatching to go through....
Trevor
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Thanks, Dan - now done.
Trevor
In article <4638f6b9$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM (Dan
Palley) writes:
<snip>
Quote
Right-click on the Object Inspector and select Arrange/By Name to
revert to the old grouping.

You're skipping 3 versions forward. A lot of things have changed.
Give the new system a thorough try before you judge it as inferior.

Dan



 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

In article <46390d70$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM (Steve
Gradijan) writes:
Quote
For the moment I am hopeful.
Me too, and I hope the upgrade from Delphi 7 to Delphi 2007 for all our developers
here expresses our commitment to the Codegear Greater Cause.
The help problem is simple to replicate - just select Help>CodeGear
Help from the main menu, then try searching for anything. MSDN is the
primary result set.
Elsewhere here, someone has pointed me to the fact that the "Tools>
Options" menu (to change to local rather than online help) is not in
Delphi itself, but in the help screens. D'oh!
Note for CodeGear: Can we have the Help options being changed from
Delphi itself? Ok, ok - I will put it into QC... :-)
Trevor
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

In article <463912fe$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>,
XXXX@XXXXX.COM (David Farrell-Garcia)
writes:
Quote
How long have you been using Delphi?
Since D1 was first released.
We avoid stuff like packages and DLLs since it makes deployment of
applications so much more complex - our apps roll out to thousands of
desktops in the UK, and single EXE's are so much easier to deploy than a
set of inter-dependent items.
This is also why we've not yet undertaken a .Net migration, as
deployment takes on a new face entirely. Plus our user base is still
firmly Windows 2000 based, with around 50% moved onto XP. The launch of Vista
is simply unrealistic at present in the commercial world in which we
move, and will take a few years to catch up.
Trevor
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

In article <463909d9$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>,
XXXX@XXXXX.COM (Del Murray) writes:
Quote
You are probably like me and expected to pour it out of
the box and start right in to working on programs.
Exactly right. I sort of expected "D7 With Knobs On", but got "D2007
With Everything Shuffled Around".
I'm encouraged by the fact that most of the folk here have expressed
similar sentiments, and that their experience has improved.
Trevor
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM (Ray
Porter) writes:
Quote
*From:* "Ray Porter" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
*Date:* Wed, 2 May 2007 16:57:21 -0400

Hi Tevor,
You sound like where I was with the BDS 2006 initially. Give it a
little time and you will get used to it.

>
>(1) The form designer in Delphi 7 kept the form and code in view all the
>time.
>In D2007, I constantly have to press F12 to flip from one to the
>other.
>Surely there's some way of keeping the form in view all the time?

You can switch this back by turning off the embedded for designer and
undocking everything. Search the news groups and you will find
step-by-step instructions for doing so. I did that initially with
the BDS but have now switched back to the default view. I still get
annoyed by the docked windows and embedded form designer but I've
mostly gotten used to it.

>
>(3) It took some considerable time and effort to install a component
>which is only available to me as a .PAS file. In D7, I would select
>Component>Install component and off I would go. In D2007, I couldn't
>>use
>the help (see item 2 above) and so used Google. I learn that I have
>to
>build a package (whatever they are) to add a component to add
>something
>on my toolbar (which has disappeared).

Yep, I ran into this same problem. Installing components/packages is
still a much bigger pain than in Delphi 7 and earlier versions. Hey, Nick
and Anders, et al., you guys listening? It would be nice if the
steps were explicitly stated somewhere other than by searching the
news groups.

>
>(4) All my Object Inspector things are unhelpfully grouped by
>arbitrary
>and seeminly random headings, plus a "Miscellaneous" section which
>implies they shouldn't be grouped this way at all.

You can change this (and I have). Just right click on the object
inspector and select the option to sort by name. It'll go back to
the old way.

>
>(5) Compiler warning H2365 is issued for classes constantly, and
>this
>really isn't a warning - it is a hint. However, it is reported as a
>warning and our company has a "No warnings" policy. I have posted to
>QC
>but it appears that some people there think this is an unnecessary
>fix.
>I disagree. Delphi is case-insensitive and hence this is not even
>worthy
>of a hint. Read my QC comment as to how this is a serious issue if
>you're interested.

Haven't seen this one. Have you checked your link and compile
options? I think you can turn off a lot of those annoying messages.

>
>(6) I have seen the Roadshows and these guys make using the Tool
>Palette
>thing look real simple. Reality is different. The old toolbar was
>MUCH
>easier, even if it did get long. However, most projects use only a
>fraction of the palette and could be reorganised to suit. This new
>thing
>is so hard to find simple stuff quickly.

I've gotten used to the new tool palette now but I still prefer the
'across the top' layout of the older versions. It takes up too much
screen space on the right side of the screen, even with the higher
resolution I am using these days.


>
>Perhaps I will get used to it. In the meantime it is all a bit of a
>slow
>trudge to get those quick things done.
>

Give it a little time. I felt much the same way after a few days
with BDS2006. I have gotten used to it now and find I like most of the
changes. The only things that really still bother me are the
difficulties installing components and the having the tool palette on
the right side.

Ray


Thanks for the words of encouragement Ray.
Of couse, those folk at CodeGear are listeniing to all this feedback,
and we may see some change in D2008...
Trevor
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Trevor Toms writes:
Quote
So now tell me how, from this screen, do I get help on "Install
components"? Here, I press the Search button on the toolbar, I type
"Install components" into the box, press Search.
Yep, the search is currently unfiltered. Try the index instead of
search.
Quote
>Switch to the Undocked Desktop.

How do I do that?
There is a dropdown menu on the toolbar that lists different desktops.
Choose "Classic Undocked".
Quote
On which panel in the options? The Environment Options in my copy of
D2007 doesn't appear to have this option on any of the panels. And
Help doesn't show anything that initially seems useful....
Tools|Options|VCL Designer|Embedded Designer. Make sure that is
unchecked.
Quote
QC #35774
I opened this report, and will look into it.
Quote
Can I be cheeky and say that I will give all your suggestions a try
over the next few days/weeks and see how I get on?
Sure. ;-)
Quote
Remember how hard it was for people to stop using WordStar
conventions? Hey, they're still buried deep in Delphi! We've used
D1, D3, D5, and Delphi 7 since 1997 so my synapses have 10 years of
unlatching to go through....
I totally understand -- but I think that it will be worth making the
change. I think the functionality and capability that you get with the
newer IDE is well worth it.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Trevor Toms writes:
Quote
We avoid stuff like packages and DLLs since it makes deployment of
applications so much more complex - our apps roll out to thousands of
desktops in the UK, and single EXE's are so much easier to deploy
than a set of inter-dependent items.
I don't disagree with any of that... but it was a bit surprising that
you did not know what packages are after using Delphi for as long as I
have.
--
David Farrell-Garcia
Whidbey Island Software, LLC
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Q Correll writes:
Quote
WTF is bds doing trying to access the net while I am working???
Especially when debugging!
Probably the Welcome Page.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Nick,
| Probably the Welcome Page.
Huh? During a debug session? Why?
--
Q
05/04/2007 16:05:29
XanaNews Version 1.17.5.7 [Q's salutation mod]
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Q Correll writes:
Quote
Huh? During a debug session? Why?
It probably updates at regular intervals. I am sure it has nothing to
do with you debugging.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Russ writes:
Quote
I got that error as well, it was 100% reproducible. I QC'd it. Revisited
it a few day later and it no longer reproduces. Weird.
I have had to manually load all comboboxes in code, as *all* comboboxes
are undependable. The problem comes and goes. It seemed like it "settled
down". Then it showed up in a final build that I sent to someone I was
doing work for. It made for an uninspiring demo.
Dave M
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Russ writes:
Quote
I got that error as well, it was 100% reproducible. I QC'd it.
Revisited it a few day later and it no longer reproduces. Weird.
What was the QC number?
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
 

Re: Delphi 2007 - mind-numbing obstacles after upgrading

Nick,
| It probably updates at regular intervals.
I don't understand. Why would it be going to the web???
--
Q
05/05/2007 08:24:51
XanaNews Version 1.17.5.7 [Q's salutation mod]