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IB6 - Open Source Tric

Quote
Keith Selbee wrote:

> I agree... by making IB open source they led us to believe that it'd always
> be a free download and fixes would be free.  

Please point to any press release or statement from Borland to this fact?  You
can still download the source for free.  The core engine fixes will still be
going into the CVS tree AFAIK so the fixes are still free.

Quote
> I thought I would just have to
> pay for the odbc driver and support and I was very happy with that
> situation.  I've been an IB customer for a few years so I would have payed
> for it, but they gave it to me and I was happy.  I even used the extra money
> to buy JBuilder so the money still went to Borland.  Now I find that the
> version I've rolled out has bugs and now I have to tell management that we
> have to pay for the "real" version?  

Or build it from the CVS.  You want free you still have free.  You want a real
company backing it with R&D, QA and support you have that option too.

Quote
> I gotta' tell you Borland, this is BS!
> I have been an EXTREMELY LOYAL Borland follower for some time but this just
> doesn't sit well with me.  And again, I'm not complaining that you're
> charging for IB cuz I'm glad to pay for it cuz it's great, but now, after
> we've rolled out the free version I find that you'll again start charging?!

Then continue to use the free version.  If you can't build the engine, I am sure
someone will and put it up on a web site if Borland chooses not to do so.

Quote
> Is it close enough to April 1 to be a joke?

> Keith

--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)   On waves of silver I dreamed of gold
(Please do not email    'Till I lost the peace that dreaming gives
 me directly unless     I dreamed of the moment of my own death
 asked.  Thank You)     That no one ever dreams and lives (Marillion)
 

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


"Jeff Overcash (TeamB)" <overc...@onramp.net> wrote in message
news:3AB24B65.99650BF3@onramp.net...

Quote

> Luke Tigaris wrote:

> > They why did Borland open source Interbase?  What was the economic
advantage
> > to Borland to open-sourcing Interbase?

> Look at the IPO market 15 months ago and what it is today.

So you are confirming that Borland regrets open sourcing Interbase.

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
Luke Tigaris wrote:

> This is exactly our biggest concern.  Given Borland's track record of
> deception here,

There has been no deception other than your own self delusion.  Borland has
constantly answered the question "how are you going to make money" with "buy
selling certified builds and support".

Quote
> I think your AFAIK is worthless, and Borland has no
> intention of updating the open source tree with those 340 bug fixes.
> Perhaps they are deceiving you too.

Borland has never lied to me and more importantly Jon Arthur has not.  I put the
AFAIK because I can not and do not speak for Borland.

--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)   On waves of silver I dreamed of gold
(Please do not email    'Till I lost the peace that dreaming gives
 me directly unless     I dreamed of the moment of my own death
 asked.  Thank You)     That no one ever dreams and lives (Marillion)

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


"Jeff Overcash (TeamB)" <overc...@onramp.net> wrote in message

Quote
> The core engine fixes will still be
> going into the CVS tree AFAIK so the fixes are still free.

This is exactly our biggest concern.  Given Borland's track record of
deception here, I think your AFAIK is worthless, and Borland has no
intention of updating the open source tree with those 340 bug fixes.
Perhaps they are deceiving you too.

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
"Craig Stuntz (TeamB)" wrote:
> Douglas Tosi wrote:

> > Only now that the certified build has seen the light,
> > we found out that there was shadow.

>         What's the problem?  Continue using the open edition -- with all of the
> bug fixes -- if you don't want to pay for the certified version.

My problem is not pricing as I'm not the one who pays for the software we use. It
is exactly that shadow I spoke of. As the guy who chooses the software we use,
having some information would be great.
Is it certain that the open edition will contain the bug fixes and have no user
limit?
Is there (or will there be) a list of such bugs?
Is the source code going public?

Quote
>  Are
> you opposed to the fact that Borland wants to make money so that they
> can continue to develop IB?

Not at all. As a customer I'm opposed to lack of infomation.
I think i'd better just sit and wait until borland sheds some light on this.

thanks,

dog

--
___________________________________________
IMPROART
Rua Emiliano Perneta, 297 - 6 And - Cj. 63
CEP 80050-010 - Curitiba-PR - Brasil
Tel/fax.: 55-41-323-7558

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
"Jeff Overcash (TeamB)" wrote:
> Borland has
> constantly answered the question "how are you going to make money" with "buy
> selling certified builds and support".

Maybe it's my poor english, anyway I don't think that means: "selling certified
builds with per user license and support".
Borland did not state that there would be a per user licence and they also did not
state that there wouldn't be. Only now that the certified build has seen the light,
we found out that there was shadow.

Sorry if I can't make myself very clear.
Regards,

dog

--
___________________________________________
IMPROART
Rua Emiliano Perneta, 297 - 6 And - Cj. 63
CEP 80050-010 - Curitiba-PR - Brasil
Tel/fax.: 55-41-323-7558

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
Douglas Tosi wrote:

> Only now that the certified build has seen the light,
> we found out that there was shadow.

        What's the problem?  Continue using the open edition -- with all of the
bug fixes -- if you don't want to pay for the certified version.  Are
you opposed to the fact that Borland wants to make money so that they
can continue to develop IB?  Nothing has been taken from you; rather,
something is being *given* to you.

        IMHO,

        -Craig

--
Craig Stuntz (TeamB)       Senior Developer, Vertex Systems Corp.
Delphi/InterBase weblog:   http://delphi.weblogs.com
Use Borland servers; posts via others are not seen by TeamB.
For more info, see http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/genl_faqs.html

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
Luke Tigaris wrote:

> They why did Borland open source Interbase?  What was the economic advantage
> to Borland to open-sourcing Interbase?

Look at the IPO market 15 months ago and what it is today.

--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)   On waves of silver I dreamed of gold
(Please do not email    'Till I lost the peace that dreaming gives
 me directly unless     I dreamed of the moment of my own death
 asked.  Thank You)     That no one ever dreams and lives (Marillion)

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
Keith Selbee wrote:

> Now, maybe I SHOULD read that stuff, but it
> was certainly implied that Borland was basically going to start giving away
> IB.  

        They *did* start giving it away.  They *still are* giving it away.
They are also selling it.  So what?

        -Craig

--
Craig Stuntz (TeamB)       Senior Developer, Vertex Systems Corp.
Delphi/InterBase weblog:   http://delphi.weblogs.com
Use Borland servers; posts via others are not seen by TeamB.
For more info, see http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/genl_faqs.html

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
Luke Tigaris wrote:

> "Jeff Overcash (TeamB)" <overc...@onramp.net> wrote in message
> news:3AB24B65.99650BF3@onramp.net...
> > Luke Tigaris wrote:
> > > They why did Borland open source Interbase?  What was the economic
> advantage
> > > to Borland to open-sourcing Interbase?
> > Look at the IPO market 15 months ago and what it is today.

> So you are confirming that Borland regrets open sourcing Interbase.

I'm saying nothing of the kind, please don't try to put words into my mouth.
You asked about economic advantages.  Back when the OpenSource was announced the
IPO bubble had not burst and there was millions to be made when the spun off
company IPO'd.  That bubble burst and the economics changed.  I know Borland has
plans to try and further the open source movement.

--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)   On waves of silver I dreamed of gold
(Please do not email    'Till I lost the peace that dreaming gives
 me directly unless     I dreamed of the moment of my own death
 asked.  Thank You)     That no one ever dreams and lives (Marillion)

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
Martijn Tonies wrote:

> Agreed - and sell support for it... However, I think the bugfixes should go
> in the Open Source tree, the 'user licenses' should be removed and that
> there should be a single version only (server, not desktop?)...

AFAIK, the CVS will get the core engine updates.  Licensing definitely will not
be part of the Open Source tree though.

Quote
> Like this, it seems they've returned to IB5.x licensing... Why don't do like
> all other Open Source 'vendors'. Take Red Hat for example, they sell Linux
> distros, accept payment for the boxed version, for support, install support
> and courses, but not for something like 'user licenses'...

Red Hat does not make money with that model.  Last quarter they lost 31 million,
last year ~81 million.  What's worse they are losing more money each quarter.
Why emulate a model that has yet to prove to work?  

I understand the dislike to go back to the traditional user licensing for RDBMS
systems, but InterBase was profitable under it before and it is a model that
works.  If InterBase makes money it can support the R&D team and QA to further
enhance and move IB forward.  

Quote
> --
> Martijn Tonies
> Upscene Productions
> http://www.upscene.com

> InterBase Workbench - the developer tool for InterBase
> http://www.interbaseworkbench.com

--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)   On waves of silver I dreamed of gold
(Please do not email    'Till I lost the peace that dreaming gives
 me directly unless     I dreamed of the moment of my own death
 asked.  Thank You)     That no one ever dreams and lives (Marillion)

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
Douglas Tosi wrote:

> Is it certain that the open edition will contain the bug fixes and have no user
> limit?

        I believe this will be the case.  If you don't want to take my word on
it, wait and see, but I bet I'm right.  :)

Quote
> Is there (or will there be) a list of such bugs?

        I think so.  I'm less certain about this, but I think so.

Quote
> Is the source code going public?

        Yes, this is certain, because it's in the press release.  The source
code for the engine -- minus the licensing, replication, ODBC, which
aren't free or open source -- will be made public on SourceForge.

        -Craig

--
Craig Stuntz (TeamB)       Senior Developer, Vertex Systems Corp.
Delphi/InterBase weblog:   http://delphi.weblogs.com
Use Borland servers; posts via others are not seen by TeamB.
For more info, see http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/genl_faqs.html

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
"Craig Stuntz (TeamB)" wrote:
> Douglas Tosi wrote:

> > Is it certain that the open edition will contain the bug fixes and have no user
> > limit?

>         I believe this will be the case.  If you don't want to take my word on
> it, wait and see, but I bet I'm right.  :)

Thanks Craig. I'll take your word on it until it's official.

Regards,

dog

--
___________________________________________
IMPROART
Rua Emiliano Perneta, 297 - 6 And - Cj. 63
CEP 80050-010 - Curitiba-PR - Brasil
Tel/fax.: 55-41-323-7558

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


Quote
> > Is it certain that the open edition will contain the bug fixes and have no user
> > limit?

>         I believe this will be the case.  If you don't want to take my word on
> it, wait and see, but I bet I'm right.  :)

Yes, the bug fixes will go in and there already is no user limit on the opensource
version.

Quote
> > Is there (or will there be) a list of such bugs?

>         I think so.  I'm less certain about this, but I think so.

Yes, we will list our bug fixes.

Quote
> > Is the source code going public?

>         Yes, this is certain, because it's in the press release.  The source
> code for the engine -- minus the licensing, replication, ODBC, which
> aren't free or open source -- will be made public on SourceForge.

This is also true.

Thanks Craig,
Aaron Ruddick
InterBase QA

Re:IB6 - Open Source Tric


I think that Borland made a mistake when they went open source with IB.
Initially they wanted to close down all development but the outcry from
users was so much they felt they had to do something to keep open future
development of the product without actually spending any money on it
themselves, so they went open source.

Now I they realise that it was a mistake and are trying to pull back and
continue to develop the product themselves and also make money from it. Good
luck to them. I'd rather pay money for a product that I knew Borland were
commited to pushing forwards than get a free product that's in a development
limbo.

Other people have questioned the price compared with MSSQL. Well of course
you also have to include the extra hassle of working with MSSQL as part of
the price, in which case IB is very very much cheaper.

I'm dead pleased that Borland might start thinking about doing some real
development on the product.

John Small

Quote
"Panos" <itexs...@cytanet.com.cy> wrote in message news:3ab1e907_1@dnews...
>     I certainly agree with Luke Tigaris and i would like to characterize
> this "Certified -Open Source version story" as a "Dirty Tric" made by
> Borland people.
>     -- They released the open source just to attract developers and now
they
> are releasing the Certified Version, saying that the Q&A team corrected
some
> hundreds of bugs.. What about those bugs? Do they exist in the open source
> version? if so, are you gonna leave all those developers that are using
the
> open source with those bugs ?
>     -- What are your future plans for the Open Source IB ? None i suppose.
> You should have in mind that a strong reason for selecting IB as a RDBMS
was
> the Free of Charge advantage. I think now a lot of people will
reconsider..
> and the Borland shares (Nasdaq:BORL) may not go as high as you think..

> Panos

> IT Consultant

> ITEX Software House Ltd

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