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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here


2005-02-09 02:30:21 AM
delphi206
Even though this is top posted and a little off topic here,
the licensing issues are all but solve with FP a Lazarus.
The only project left is the GTK2Pascal project. All the
projects where always meant to allow compiling and
distribution of commercial products, but the license didn't
say that. Both FP and Lazarus have adopted a new variant of
the LMPL that allows linking of units directly into your
code and redistribution under any license you want.
GTK2Pascal project is already considering the matter and
should follow suit shortly.
The UOPL project hopes to be the bridge between Delphi and
Lazarus because I want to be able to live in both worlds.
Choice and competition is always a good thing.
Dennis Landi writes:
Quote
Me and Thomas Miller (and others) are monitoring FP developments. I still
have concerns of "commercial" issues since the FP compiler isn't licensed
under MPL.

I think I will spec out what it would take to write a pascal compiler from
scratch, anyway. It would be nice to write one for socket servers that I
could compile for Windows or Linux. If I did that, I will bet the NexusDb
guys would help me out with an ODBC driver... ;-)

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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

"Thomas Miller" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

The UOPL project hopes to be the bridge between Delphi and
Lazarus because I want to be able to live in both worlds.
Choice and competition is always a good thing.

Dennis Landi writes:

>Me and Thomas Miller (and others) are monitoring FP developments. I
still
>have concerns of "commercial" issues since the FP compiler isn't
licensed
>under MPL.
the licensing issues are all but solve with FP a Lazarus.
The only project left is the GTK2Pascal project. All the
projects where always meant to allow compiling and
distribution of commercial products, but the license didn't
say that. Both FP and Lazarus have adopted a new variant of
the LMPL that allows linking of units directly into your
code and redistribution under any license you want.
GTK2Pascal project is already considering the matter and
should follow suit shortly.
(by top-posting you just create more work for me)
Good to hear that the licensing issues are being worked out.
Once the FP guys actually produce a Win64 compiler; and if its viable (works
well, is performant, etc.) I think you will see added interest on the UOPL
front.
-d
 

Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Dennis Landi writes:
Quote


(by top-posting you just create more work for me)

Good to hear that the licensing issues are being worked out.

Once the FP guys actually produce a Win64 compiler; and if its viable (works
well, is performant, etc.) I think you will see added interest on the UOPL
front.

-d


By bottom posting, I have to grab my mouse and scroll down
just to read what you said! The world isn't perfect! :-)
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Quote
[...] But it isn't going to happen overnight.
Indeed, but it gives a clear target and a destination.
Nowadays, it is more like you have to pick your own
target amongst the zillions that exist, with no real
hope of enforcing it on everybody, nor certainty that
it will still exist as a technical option in X years.
Eric
 

Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Dennis Landi writes:
Quote
have concerns of "commercial" issues since the FP compiler isn't licensed
under MPL.
that pertains only to the compiler itself,
one can create proprietary commercial software with it.
Martin
 

Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
By bottom posting, I have to grab my mouse and scroll down just to
read what you said!
Only if you choose not to trim your quotes. :)
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Eric Grange writes:
Quote
>>Which will get them... what?
>
>A .NET/Avalon version running on existing hardware.

No Avalon, and .Net already runs on WinXP.
But Kostya said there will be a classic mode which will run on existing
hardware. Was he wrong?
Quote

Since O/S additions like WinFS have been cut from LongHorn,
and other (security) improvementsin LongHorn (NX, virtualization,
LaGrande, etc.) will require new hardware, there will be
no point in upgrading.
Either that, or they, being a good Microsoft, change their plans a few
times again. We'll see. <g>
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
Who would want that? Again, arguing to argue.
Those who want to use the advantages of Longhorn (assuming there are
any) on existing hardware. Surely not someone like you. <g>
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
>Anyone writing an Avalon-based app who wants to ensure that a big
>chunk of the market isn't totally shut out of their potential
>customer base.

That would be like running a Dos ap on Windows XP.
And what is wrong with running a DOS app? Until recently (July 2004)
the main app in my clinic was a DOS app on Windows 95, on a Pentium2
400. Win95 allowed us to start 5 instances of the app, so we could
switch between them to work on different patients. It was most of the
time fast and extremely reliable. I never had a blue screen, never lost
any data (except a few erroneous deletes by an assistant, but thanks to
backup. no problem). It produced all the reports and printouts we
needed, and although the terminology used was not always consistent
(Return key was also call CR key, Enter key, etc.), it was a good,
solid program.
But since this was one of 6 different apps for the same purpose (dental
clinics) the company had (all bought from the competition), they forced
people to upgrade to their new Windows product, since they said they'd
stop developing the 6 old programs anytime.
Now we're running a Win32 app on XP Pro, using MS-SQL Server, on a 3GHz
P4, and although it is graphically much better, and I can see and get
much more information from it (in one screen), but otherwise, it is not
better than the old app. Since the HD is faster, searches are a bit
faster, but not even much.
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
Why would any upgrade to Longhorn just to run like Win98?
This is what I am talking about.
Those who have Win32 apps they don't want to replace anytime soon
(because they are so expensive or otherwise hard to upgrade or replace).
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

It would be like using a VW bug to deliver bedding. It may
work once, but who would try to do it every day, at least
most of us wouldn't <g>.
As Craig said, they may be trying to do something to make it
run nice on current hardware.
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Thomas Miller writes:


>Who would want that? Again, arguing to argue.


Those who want to use the advantages of Longhorn (assuming there are
any) on existing hardware. Surely not someone like you. <g>
--
Thomas Miller
Wash DC Delphi SIG Chairperson
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
Why would any upgrade to Longhorn just to run like Win98?
This is what I am talking about. Arguing to just argue.
I don't quite know what you mean with "arguing to just argue". Did you
mean me? If so, you should find a mirror.
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have only wasted my time."
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Eric Grange writes:
Quote

The whole point of Avalon and LongHorn is to make these "advanced"
features a baseline, so that developpers can get out of the situation
we have today, which is: advanced features are available, but not so
widely supported.
*Eventually* it will be a baseline. But no-one, including MS, can demand
that all users upgrade their hardware. Further, I am pretty sure MS will want
to be able to sell Longhorn to existing users - within reason - rather than
limit themselves to only those willing and able to immediately upgrade. So
the reality is that there is going to be a transition period, like it or
not. During that time, you will have to make a decision on whether and how
to target customers with different hardware.
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
OK, point taken, but it still stands that a company upgrading to an
Avalon based product will also budget for the proper hardware, or
they won't move to it.
That seems to be what Craig is contradicting.
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Re: [64-bit Delphi] Intel says the 64-bit Tipping Point is here

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Thomas Miller writes:

>OK, point taken, but it still stands that a company upgrading to an
>Avalon based product will also budget for the proper hardware, or
>they won't move to it.

That seems to be what Craig is contradicting.
Not precisely. I am looking at it from a developer's point of view.
IMHO, if Avalon supports XP then it is less important to the developer
whether or not the customer intends to upgrade her hardware and
software, because the developer's product is no longer definitively
locked out of the non-Longhorn market.
-Craig
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