Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

Phillip Woon

Delphi Developer

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

2006-06-21 09:56:54 AM
delphi165
No, language envy :)
Matt Jacobs writes:

Quote

tony caduto <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:

>Matt Jacobs writes:
>
>>I am only a C++ programmer today because Turbo Pascal didn't support
>>any usuable memory models.
>>
>>Well, that and the runtime library sucked. ;-)
>Why are you{*word*154} out here then :-)

Glutton for punishment? <g>

JEM

Delphi Developer

2006-06-21 10:44:14 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

Quote

>A little "outside the box" thinking might be in order..

So what does "outside the box" thinking mean for you?
One thing I would do is figure out a way to get it in as

many colleges as possible. Produce free instructor copies
along with teaching and classroom material of some sort.

Quote

I'd say what it is definitely not is "do whatever MS is doing."
That's kind of hard considering both MS and DevCo are

playing in the .NET world. As long as they're going to be
doing the .NET thing, they're going to have to get used
to being led around by the nose..
It's too bad they couldn't figure out how to make a
scripted version of Delphi and get the various browsers
makers to support it client side..a pipe dream I know,
but it would add instant credibility and a HUGE potential
user base for the full version.
Scan the entirety of the Delphi community and consolidate
all of the best articles, code snippets and components
into something intelligible and easily searchable. An
all encompassing Wiki would be nice..
Also, try to create ads that hammer home the point of
how descriptive Delphi is compared to the plethora of C
languages. You could make some real hay with this angle
if done right. By right, I mean poke fun at their lack
of readability. Something similar to the current crop
of Apple ads that jab at the PC..
Just some thoughts..

Alan

Delphi Developer

2006-06-21 03:35:34 PM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

"Bryce K. Nielsen" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes

Quote

>>I think DevCo should do whatever it takes to court teachers to *want* to
>>use Delphi in their curriculum. I agree, I don't think pricing is really
>>much of an issue. I think rather it is just not being taught.>
>
>I agree with your other points, but pricing is an issue. We plan to have
>40 machines installed with a programming tool that we can choose. In the
>UK we have a great academic discount for borland and can purchase this
>for around ?000, but I have been given the choice of whether I spend
>this 2000 on equipment for a networking lab that I require, or spending
>it on delphi which I'd love, but we can use Visual Studio free of
>charge.

I was referring to the current Student Pricing. IIRC for Professional it's
$100. that is about all a student would need (though I disagree with
earlier comments that Db stuff shouldn't be taught) and that is something a
student can afford (it's about the same price as other books for classes).
As for licenses ON school machines, that is probably a different story. And
that's what I am trying to get at here.

DevCo should do whatever it takes to get teachers to want to teach and get
it on school machines. If that means giving it away, then DO IT! If it's
just for school machines, I don't think they are giving it away anyways.
Giving to students might be "giving away", but not to school-machines.

Completely agree with you here. I think a school/college/uni should be able

to pay for the delphi media, or make it available to download once proof is
sent, then they should have unlimited installs. This also leads on to
another problem. Installing delphi every year on 40 machines......

William Meyer

Delphi Developer

2006-06-22 05:09:28 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

Wayne Niddery [TeamB] writes:

Quote

That's interesting. While Anders had nothing to do with it in my case
<g>, I was quite happily programming in C in the late '80s when a
friend at work convinced me to try TP (5.5) - I had never learned
Pascal before that - and after a week or so realized I liked it a lot
more than C - and, well, ended up here. <g>
Interesting... so even C programmers can be saved <g>.

--
Bill

John Kaster (Borland)

Delphi Developer

2006-06-24 03:21:47 PM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

JEM writes:

Quote

If the learning institutions
aren't teaching it, the corporate world sees that as a lack
of interest and basically writes it off.
You believe that what is taught in schools determines what the

corporate world uses, and not the other way around?
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com

John Kaster (Borland)

Delphi Developer

2006-06-24 03:22:14 PM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

William Meyer writes:

Quote

Without these features, it has
been my experience, the schools won't consider any book for use in a
course.
There are Delphi text books around. They probably need to be updated,

but they exist.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com

William Meyer

Delphi Developer

2006-06-24 06:24:57 PM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

John Kaster (Borland) writes:

Quote

There are Delphi text books around. They probably need to be updated,
but they exist.
Interesting. Any names or authors?

--
Bill

Marc Rohloff [TeamB]

Delphi Developer

2006-06-24 10:44:34 PM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

On 24 Jun 2006 00:21:47 -0700, John Kaster (Borland) writes:

Quote

You believe that what is taught in schools determines what the
corporate world uses, and not the other way around?
I don't think you can discount the influence it has. People will

almost always resist change and stay with what they originally
learned, I see this a lot with the COBOL programmers I work with.
i.e. I think it is a two way street.
AFAIK, Linux for example was mostly a University 'thing' to start off
with.
I would also think that you wouldn't lose anything by giving away free
or almost free academic software. If they don't use it later, well
then they didn't use it. Imagine all those kids learning there is
something like ECO, but they can not use it when they get to a
corporate!
It's also great PR.
--
Marc Rohloff [TeamB]
marc rohloff -at- myrealbox -dot- com

Ingvar Nilsen

Delphi Developer

2006-06-25 12:40:41 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

Marc Rohloff [TeamB] writes:

Quote

On 24 Jun 2006 00:21:47 -0700, John Kaster (Borland) writes:

>You believe that what is taught in schools determines what the
>corporate world uses, and not the other way around?

I don't think you can discount the influence it has.
Agreed. In any case, the number of Delphi developers will not decrease.

--
Ingvar Nilsen
www.ingvarius.com

Bryce K. Nielsen

Delphi Developer

2006-06-25 03:34:24 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

Quote

You believe that what is taught in schools determines what the
corporate world uses, and not the other way around?

I believe what is not taught in school will never be used in the corporate

world...
-BKN

Wayne Niddery [TeamB]

Delphi Developer

2006-06-25 05:22:50 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

Bryce K. Nielsen writes:

Quote

I believe what is not taught in school will never be used in the
corporate world...
If the schools are not paying attention to the corporate world, you will be

correct. Since the job of the schools is to prepare students for that
corporate world, they tend to teach what they believe is of value there -
hence why many schools jumped on the Java bandwagon *after* it became
apparent it was becoming popular in business. The cause and effect was *not*
the other way around.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"Nurture your mind with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic makes
heroes." ?Benjamin Disraeli

John Kaster (Borland)

Delphi Developer

2006-06-25 05:54:37 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

Marc Rohloff [TeamB] writes:

Quote

I would also think that you wouldn't lose anything by giving away
free or almost free academic software.
As has been mentioned elsewhere, you don't have to convince me to court

the educational market.
I'm looking for proof, research, something other than anecdotes that
shows educational interest in technology <x>drives adoption of that
technology in the business sector. This is information that should be
current as of the last 5 years.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com

John Kaster (Borland)

Delphi Developer

2006-06-25 05:58:26 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

William Meyer writes:

Quote

Interesting. Any names or authors?
I've got one on my shelf at work by someone in Australia. Roy Morien

wrote one. I almost went to his college to teach Delphi programming for
a semester or two before accepting a job with Borland.
www.cbs.curtin.edu.au/index.cfm
285D04AB2E0&method=renderstaffprofile&staffid=431FE560-FE93-6494-F20A068
E45585837
or
tinyurl.com/qnnw9
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com

Marc Rohloff [TeamB]

Delphi Developer

2006-06-25 08:16:39 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

On 24 Jun 2006 03:24:57 -0700, William Meyer writes:

Quote

>There are Delphi text books around. They probably need to be updated,
>but they exist.

Interesting. Any names or authors?
<hint>

This would probably be a useful addition to the Delphi Wiki.
</hint>
--
Marc Rohloff [TeamB]
marc rohloff -at- myrealbox -dot- com

Dan Barclay

Delphi Developer

2006-06-25 10:23:10 AM

Re: Delphi in more schools (was Re: Microsoft here I come)

"John Kaster (Borland)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes

Quote

JEM writes:

>If the learning institutions
>aren't teaching it, the corporate world sees that as a lack
>of interest and basically writes it off.

You believe that what is taught in schools determines what the
corporate world uses, and not the other way around?
Absolutely yes and no. Chicken and egg.

There is definitely an influence. "Determine" is probably too strong a
word. I think I have mentioned this example before, but I have always bought
Tektroniks oscilloscopes. that is what we had in our labs in college, they
were good, and I knew that. I *didn't* know that about the competitors
(they may have been fine, I just had no experience).
In a previous life at a large chemical company, when my guys wanted a scope
I had a *lot* more questions when they wanted something other than
Tektroniks. I didn't rule out something else, but it was sure easier for
them if they didn't have to answer a bunch of questions. No scheme on my
part, I just had more questions.
Not long ago I wanteda portable storage scope here at home (yea, everybody
should have one<g>). I bought a Tektroniks scope off eBay.
Dan