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Re: Congrats CodeGear!


2006-11-15 11:05:12 PM
delphi115
Tom Corey writes:
Quote
>Getting past a milestone? Or simply going from Something to Limbo
>back to almost the same something? Looks more like time lost to me.

Time passed, sure. that is what time does. But lost? Hardly. The tools
group hasn't been sitting on their hands all this time, after all.
With customers the time is lost as the future was unknown - the amount
of damage is severe in confidence.
Also while they were progressing - they now likely and hopefully will
change direction a bit with roadmaps.
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professional technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Maybe they can teach it to mow the lawn. Seriously, this is a lot better
than the way it is been the last couple of years.
"Andrew Fiddian-Green" <nn@dd>writes
Quote

The monkey may no longer be on their back...

... but the monkey IS still in the back yard..
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Chad Z. Hower writes:
Quote
With customers the time is lost as the future was unknown
Tragically, I was born with only the five conventional senses, and so
have never been able to know with any certainty what the future holds.
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

John Jacobson writes:
Quote
"Allen Bauer (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in
message <455ab9d5$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
>>Unless you run into money problems, in which case the parent will
>>get very involved.
>
>That scenario is different from having another "investor" that is
>expecting a regular return on their investment and/or paying off any
>debt that is loaded onto the new company?

That lack of a difference was kind of my point. I was never under the
impression that another investor would mean any greater autonomy than
under Borland.
We're now "under Borland" in the same way we'd be "under an investor"
So, yes, there is little distinction.. NOW. Prior to yesterday, there
was a *huge* distinction.
I have been *very close* to this whole process and have personally
learned more than I ever thought I would know about how these things work.
It was a very enlightening and even rewarding experience. All I can
say is that reality in the investment world is a little different that
what folks here may think of. The misconceptions flying around here
are, shall we say, somewhat interesting at best.
--
Allen Bauer
CodeGear
Chief Scientist
Borland
blogs.borland.com/abauer
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Chad Z. Hower writes:
Quote
Tom Corey writes:
>>What's the congrats for? Nothing has really changed.
>
>For getting past that particular milestone, perhaps?

Getting past a milestone? Or simply going from Something to Limbo back
to almost the same something? Looks more like time lost to me.
What lost time? Are you implying that everyone here was simply held in
stasis until yesterday and now we can actually get working on our road
maps? I hope not.
The past 9 months have been *very* beneficial for several things;
First of all, the people who are closest to the business and have the
most "skin in the game" now have a much, much deeper understanding of
the business, the opportunities, and the direction. This is not to say
that we didn't understand it before, but throughout this process we had
to look long and hard at how we intend to operate this new venture.
Regardless of what the final disposition would have been, we were
preparing for this day. Kinda like boot camp and now we're ready to
hit the front lines.
--
Allen Bauer
CodeGear
Chief Scientist
Borland
blogs.borland.com/abauer
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

In article <455a8b6e$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, Kyle A. Miller writes:
Quote
Maybe Borland will throw some of the giant ALM profits they have been
forecasting to CodeGear since they have an interest in seeing CodeGear
prosper.
You jest! My guess is that Borland will presumably have agreed with
CodeGear that the notional value of CG is x say $100m and they expect a
x% ?5% return on this, so CG have to pay Borland $5m per year - no doubt
the exact values of these numbers has been argued over long and hard
during the last few months. What CG do to deliver this is up to CG
management and as long as it does Borland will not interfere. In
compensation CG can make presumably now make its own arrangements for
things like legal, marketing, HR etc and won't have to pay towards to
overhead of the larger operation.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' www.sda.co.uk
Shareware Industry Conference 2006 sponsor www.sic.org
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Makl Hvrz writes:
Quote
How about posting some of this to your blog, like "investment world
in a nutshell"? This could be interesting to hear from the
perspective of a non-business man if it leaves out the
business-jargon.
I have my doubts that any process which involves so many lawyers and
accountants can be adequately expressed in English such that a real
person could understand it :)
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Quote
I have been *very close* to this whole process and have personally
learned more than I ever thought I would know about how these things work.
It was a very enlightening and even rewarding experience. All I can
say is that reality in the investment world is a little different that
what folks here may think of. The misconceptions flying around here
are, shall we say, somewhat interesting at best.
How about posting some of this to your blog, like "investment world in a
nutshell"? This could be interesting to hear from the perspective of a
non-business man if it leaves out the business-jargon.
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Mal Hrz writes:
Quote
>I have been *very close* to this whole process and have personally
>learned more than I ever thought I would know about how these things
>work. It was a very enlightening and even rewarding experience. All
>I can say is that reality in the investment world is a little
>different that what folks here may think of. The misconceptions
>flying around here are, shall we say, somewhat interesting at best.
How about posting some of this to your blog, like "investment world
in a nutshell"? This could be interesting to hear from the
perspective of a non-business man if it leaves out the
business-jargon.
I'd be very interested as well.
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

"Allen Bauer (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
At least we're the "boneheaded execs" now.
Time to pointy up that hair! :-)
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Allen Bauer (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
What lost time? Are you implying that everyone here was simply held
in stasis until yesterday and now we can actually get working on our
road maps? I hope not.
No, not at all. Simply that you've lost a lot of time with customers.
Many customers put things on hold pending outcome, and many left in the
time preiod as well.
Also since the roadmap was a bit of a fishing expedition of sorts and
that it might change now - well some things are lost certainly because
of this. But this is minor compared to the customer damage.
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professional technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Wayne Niddery [TeamB] writes:
Quote
>And as a completely owned unit - Borland has what representation on
>the board? I doubt they are going to let CodeGear be autonomous,
>thats rare for completely owned subsidiaries.

But by being a separate entity, motivations change; the best way for
them to act in the best interest of both companies is for both
companies to succeed. Creating a subsidiary, with all the legal costs
and time involved in making that happen, is of zero value if it is
going to be run exactly the same was it was run as an internal
business unit.
They change, but many things remain the same. I have said its good they
cant suck them dry any more. But in the end Borland may still sell or
turn them off if they dont run "well enough". And we'll have to see how
crippled they leave them on start, hopefully not too badly.
--
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professional technical speaker at your event? See www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Derek Davidson writes:
Quote

All Borland needs is for CodeGear to produce a profit on paper.
Borland can use cash as they see fit.
While I am not a lawyer, I am certain this is not right. The new company is
*legally* a separate entity, so Borland cannot just "scoop" money from them
on a whim. Any money flowing up to the parent company must be in trade for
something just as it must be between any two corporate entities. As a
separate entity, all money has to be accounted for as per any company, if
they show "on paper" certain assets, yet are unable to use those assets in
their business because they are in possession of some other corporate
entity, that is a serious legal red flag.
Quote
CodeGear proves viable? Borland will sell them.
Which is what most were hoping for anyway, so hardly a bad thing, right?
Quote
CodeGear doesn't prove
viable? Borland will kill them off.
And how would that be different if their ownership was with any other
entity? If Borland seriously did not think they could make a go of it on
their own they would not have spent that last many months, money, and
people's time forming this subsidiary - they would *already* have been
killed off - it is a lot cheaper.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go
away." ?Philip K.{*word*106}
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

IanH writes:
Quote

The exec team are there to deliver shareholder value. Surely the
shareholders (ie Borland) have some say in what proportion of profits
are retained for product development, and what need to pass to the
group?

Will Borland be happy for Codegear to return no profit (would this be
in the form of a dividend for the wholly-owned subsidiary?), in the
hope that this will eventually become a fully-separate saleable item?
Or does this just formalise the previous milking process?
If their intent was to just start (or continue) milking the products, going
to the time and expense of creating a subsidiary is of *zero* advantage,
they were already in the position of being able to milk it *completely*,
Making it a separate legal entity makes it much harder to get away with
trying to milk it.
Certainly Borland stands to make profit from CodeGear, they will no doubt
get some percentage of profits, but with it as a separate company rather
than simply an internal business unit, it makes it much more attractive to
profit by trying to insure the new company is *successful*. Spinning off the
company just to milk it into oblivion makes no sense on any level.
IOW, Borland has put themselves into the position of *wanting* CodeGear to
succeed as a separate business entity.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's
unfamiliar territory." - Paul Fix
 

Re: Congrats CodeGear!

Chad Z. Hower writes:
Quote

And as a completely owned unit - Borland has what representation on
the board? I doubt they are going to let CodeGear be autonomous,
thats rare for completely owned subsidiaries.
But by being a separate entity, motivations change; the best way for them to
act in the best interest of *both* companies is for *both* companies to
succeed. Creating a subsidiary, with all the legal costs and time involved
in making that happen, is of zero value if it is going to be run exactly the
same was it was run as an internal business unit.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"Light is faster than sound, which is why some folks appear bright
before they speak."