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Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?

Hi there.

I'm in the midst of two projects. One uses the Indy Imap4 and general email
classes; the other uses the Indy HttpServer classes.  I've only scratched
the surface with the Server classes and things seem to be going ok.  The
Imap4 classes however, are showing bugs right a left as I delve deeper into
them.

Now, before this gets out of hand - I've found support here to be fantastic.
Quick turnaround and pretty thorough answers.  However, the bottom line is
that I can't query my Imap server (Communigate Pro) for emails reliably.
There are errors in the Imap4 module that cause infinite loops, and that
report errors where none exist.  The errors are understandable and not too
tough to fix myself, but that's not what I'm interested in doing.

My concern is that, being open source, the Indy libraries may not be up to
commercial quality.  Please let me know if this could be the case.  Will I
start running into errors similar to the IMAP ones as soon as I delve deeper
into the Http Server application?  Possibly the Imap implementation is new,
or rarely used and I should find another solution for it, and keep using the
HttpServer.  I just don't have the time to try each Indy component and
figure out if it has what it takes to be used in a commercial app.

I've also thought about using the built-in Delphi libraries for the server
stuff.  Thing is, I'm not really comfortable using these rarely-updated
libraries.  I've decided to buy from Borland what they are good at making -
compilers and development IDE's.  I'm going to pass on their enhanced
libraries.

With all of that in mind, should I keep using Indy or find another solution?
Ideally, I'd like to see Turbo Power ship a library like Indy.  They release
stable updates a few times a year and provide support and documentation.  Is
there a solution like that for IMAP and Web Server and Web Services?  What
other 3rd party company produces quality Delphi libraries?

Thanks,

-pete

--

Pete d'Oronzio
Pd' Programming, Inc
"Where Magic Happens"
http://www.pdmagic.com

 

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
"Pete d'Oronzio" <myfirstn...@pdmagic.com> wrote:
>Ideally, I'd like to see Turbo Power ship a library like Indy.  They release
>stable updates a few times a year and provide support and documentation.  

   Turbopower has a library similar to Indy, called Internet Pro. Unfortunately. TP lost the main engineer for IP soon after it was originally released (or around that time), and as a result it appears that the library went into stagnation. Judging from the newsgroup traffic around that time, it was buggy and the bugs seemed to never get fixed in a very timely fashion. The newsgroups for IP seem to have died down since then, perhaps indicating waning interest in IP. I was interested in the possibility of using IP instead of Indy when I was starting my newsreader, and decided against it based on the newsgroup scuttlebutt.

  I've had relatively good experiences with Indy 9.0x, but it appears that if I want to make my newsreader into a commercial quality application, I'm going to have to hack Indy. I primarily depend on the NNTP component in Indy and I've noticed a few annoying glitches. Some messages refuse to properly download, either complaining of an invalid message part, or going into an infinite loop. This bug seems to be message-specific. Also, it doesn't seem to decode all dates properly.

   You might want to look at Francois Piette's ICS components. I don't know if he has an IMAP component in there or not, since I haven't looked at his stuff in a while. His stuff is non-blocking.

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


I've had nothing but trouble since switching to Indy from ICS.  In
particular the IRC component.

Dan

Quote
"Pete d'Oronzio" <myfirstn...@pdmagic.com> wrote in message

news:3e15e9f4@newsgroups.borland.com...
Quote
> Hi there.

> I'm in the midst of two projects. One uses the Indy Imap4 and general
email
> classes; the other uses the Indy HttpServer classes.  I've only scratched
> the surface with the Server classes and things seem to be going ok.  The
> Imap4 classes however, are showing bugs right a left as I delve deeper
into
> them.

> Now, before this gets out of hand - I've found support here to be
fantastic.
> Quick turnaround and pretty thorough answers.  However, the bottom line is
> that I can't query my Imap server (Communigate Pro) for emails reliably.
> There are errors in the Imap4 module that cause infinite loops, and that
> report errors where none exist.  The errors are understandable and not too
> tough to fix myself, but that's not what I'm interested in doing.

> My concern is that, being open source, the Indy libraries may not be up to
> commercial quality.  Please let me know if this could be the case.  Will I
> start running into errors similar to the IMAP ones as soon as I delve
deeper
> into the Http Server application?  Possibly the Imap implementation is
new,
> or rarely used and I should find another solution for it, and keep using
the
> HttpServer.  I just don't have the time to try each Indy component and
> figure out if it has what it takes to be used in a commercial app.

> I've also thought about using the built-in Delphi libraries for the server
> stuff.  Thing is, I'm not really comfortable using these rarely-updated
> libraries.  I've decided to buy from Borland what they are good at
making -
> compilers and development IDE's.  I'm going to pass on their enhanced
> libraries.

> With all of that in mind, should I keep using Indy or find another
solution?
> Ideally, I'd like to see Turbo Power ship a library like Indy.  They
release
> stable updates a few times a year and provide support and documentation.
Is
> there a solution like that for IMAP and Web Server and Web Services?  What
> other 3rd party company produces quality Delphi libraries?

> Thanks,

> -pete

> --

> Pete d'Oronzio
> Pd' Programming, Inc
> "Where Magic Happens"
> http://www.pdmagic.com

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
> With all of that in mind, should I keep using Indy or find another
solution?
> Ideally, I'd like to see Turbo Power ship a library like Indy.  They
release
> stable updates a few times a year and provide support and documentation.
Is
> there a solution like that for IMAP and Web Server and Web Services?  What
> other 3rd party company produces quality Delphi libraries?

I guess, Indy can be treated as 2 parts:
While I've never found a bug in the core comps (though there were some),
there were/are quite some bugs in the other comps. However, HTTP and FTP
seem to work better than NNTP/SMTP/POP3. I use the first ones in some apps
and they work well, whereas I have not used the second ones so far, but -
judging from the posts here - there seem to be more errors in those comps.

ICS is said to be bug-free, nevertheless, it's non-blocking and I would not
recommend using it as a server-comp.
There is a commercial support for Indy now (forgot the URL though), maybe
that might be worth considering in this case.
Btw. if you were talking about the Fastnet comps that come with Delphi -
Stay a way from them, Indy is a lot better and they are, too, non-blocking.

Andy

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
> There is a commercial support for Indy now (forgot the URL though), maybe
> that might be worth considering in this case.

Thanks for the response.

When I started using Indy in September or so, I purchased points from their
commercial side.  I did it mostly to support the cause and do my part to
keep development going.  The problem is, most of the problems I am having
are actually bugs.  I confess I haven't requested fixes, but it is clear
from the bugs that I'm finding that at least the Imap component hasn't been
very well tested.

There is a difference between a commercial app and paid support.  I've
received commercial quality support right here in this newsgroup, but if the
problem is a bug, it all goes back to testing and ongoing development.

From your post, perhaps using Indy for my web - server needs will work, but
I should look elsewhere for my IMAP needs (just found dart and ip*works)
Hope I don't have to backpeddle too much with the server over the next few
months though.

Thanks for your insights!

-pete

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
>    Turbopower has a library similar to Indy, called Internet Pro.

Unfortunately. TP lost the main engineer for IP soon after it was originally
released (or around that time), and as a result it appears that the library
went into stagnation. Judging from the newsgroup traffic around that time,
it was buggy and the bugs seemed to never get fixed in a very timely
fashion. The newsgroups for IP seem to have died down since then, perhaps
indicating waning interest in IP. I was interested in the possibility of
using IP instead of Indy when I was starting my newsreader, and decided
against it based on the newsgroup scuttlebutt.

Hmm... When I called about 8 months ago and asked about IP, they said it was
mostly client-side.  They said to skip it for server-side stuff.  Perhaps
they knew they wouldn't be keeping it up much longer.

Quote
>   I've had relatively good experiences with Indy 9.0x, but it appears that

if I want to make my newsreader into a commercial quality application, I'm
going to have to hack Indy. I primarily depend on the NNTP component in Indy
and I've noticed a few annoying glitches. Some messages refuse to properly
download, either complaining of an invalid message part, or going into an
infinite loop. This bug seems to be message-specific. Also, it doesn't seem
to decode all dates properly.

Indeed.  Most of my problems are message responses that are formatted
slightly different from the way Indy was expecting them.

Quote

>    You might want to look at Francois Piette's ICS components. I don't

know if he has an IMAP component in there or not, since I haven't looked at
his stuff in a while. His stuff is non-blocking.

Well, the intro to Indy pretty much sold me on blocking protocols, so I
doubt I'll go there.

This sure looks like  a place for someone to jump in and make a commercial
product, no?

If I could find another product on the market that could give me the
functionality I am looking for, I'd surely pay for it.  Since I'm not
finding much, I may just end up taking the 'fix it myself' route with Indy.
That'll take me some precious time though.  I hadn't counted on that.

Thanks for your response.

-pete

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
"Pete d'Oronzio" <myfirstn...@pdmagic.com> wrote in message

news:3e160918$1@newsgroups.borland.com...

Quote

> From your post, perhaps using Indy for my web - server needs will work,
but
> I should look elsewhere for my IMAP needs (just found dart and ip*works)
> Hope I don't have to backpeddle too much with the server over the next few
> months though.

Can't comment specifically on the IMAP but I've used IP*Works extensively
and found it to be reliable.  Support is also good.

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


I use some server components for a commercial application (SMTP,POP3, and
FTP)
and they work very good.
But i must admit there are some components (eg. TIdImap4 and TIdIrc) that
have some problems in some cases.
But we are doing the best we can to fix / replace them for Indy 10, and
possibly Indy 9.

--

Bas Gooijen

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
Pete d'Oronzio wrote:
> Hi there.

> I'm in the midst of two projects. One uses the Indy Imap4 and general email
> classes; the other uses the Indy HttpServer classes.  I've only scratched
> the surface with the Server classes and things seem to be going ok.  The
> Imap4 classes however, are showing bugs right a left as I delve deeper into
> them.

There was an interesting thread about Indy bug list and
lack of documentation about fixes back in November.

------------
Andrew.

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
"Pete d'Oronzio" <myfirstn...@pdmagic.com> wrote:
>Indeed.  Most of my problems are message responses that are formatted
>slightly different from the way Indy was expecting them.

So that begs the question:   Is Indy at fault, or is the message you're downloading not RFC-822 compliant?  That sounds an AWFUL lot like an error of unexpected input rather than of proper input mishandled (though the Pit Crew seems to be acknowledging bugs in the IMAP component, I've not seen any such admissions of faults in NNTP).

Quote
>This sure looks like  a place for someone to jump in and make a commercial
>product, no?

1) Indy comes with Delphi, and Delphi is commercial.

2) How much would you pay for a WORKING, bug-free Indy-type library?   (Hint:  Whatever number you had in mind, it isn't enough to make such a product commercially viable).

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
"Andy M." <1...@123.com> wrote:
>There is a commercial support for Indy now (forgot the URL though), maybe
>that might be worth considering in this case.

It's relatively inexpensive, too.

http://www.nevrona.com/indypro

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


We've acknowledged that IMAP and even IRC are less than they should be. But
currently we dont have anyone who is active on them.

Because its Open Source, not all parts are created equal.

--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
      "Programming is an art form that fights back"

   Want to keep up to date with Indy?

   Join Indy News - it free!

      http://www.atozedsoftware.com/indy/news/

ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


"Jeff Woods" <j...@telix.com> wrote in news:3e175505@newsgroups.borland.com:

Quote
> It's relatively inexpensive, too.

> http://www.nevrona.com/indypro

Actually thats an old link. Its been superceded by:
http://www.atozedsoftware.com/indy/Support/index.html

--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
      "Programming is an art form that fights back"

  Is Indy useful to you? Send a postcard please!
  http://www.hower.org/kudzu/indypost.html

ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu wrote:

Quote
> Indy 10 also includes bug fixes of course. Indy 10 is also better
> regression tested. I've been pushing the team to use box testing for
> quite a while, and member by member they are coming around. :)

Can you make a small list? :P
I want to know if what I need is being "taken care of" :PPPPP
I need SMTP, POP3, IMAP and NNTP.

Cheers,

Andrew

Re:Is Indy robust enough for commercial apps?


Quote
Andrew Cruickshank wrote:
> Commercial stuff can be dropped at any time. It can
> be changed at any time. And when it is you may have
> no source and limited rights.

Precisely. I forgot to mention it, but that's what I wanted to point out.

Quote
> With open source you don't have a problem legitimately
> acquiring licences for a product that is no longer
> sold a few years down the line.

Exactly.

Quote
> -----------
> Andrew.

Andrew
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