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Seeking Opinions...

Hi!  My company is in the beginning stages of developing a new mission
critical application.  We want to go C/S and have decided to use Sybase
SQL Anywhere.  Originally, we were planning to use VB5 as a front-end
but have run into problems getting support and answers.  I have
recommended Delphi 2/3 for a front-end because I prefer it, but I want
what is best for the company.  

Now, here comes the "OPINION" part... Has anyone out there successfully
developed an application using Delphi 2/3 and SQL Anywhere?  What is
your opinion on the combination?  ANY responses would be appreciated (to
group or me personally) even if it is just "Yes, DON'T DO IT MAN!!!" or
"Stick with VB".  If yes, do you have any "words of wisdom"??

I posted a similar message on the VB group and got but one response,
hoping for more here.

Mucho Thanx - Mike

 

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Yo Michael Mount:

Have done 1.5 apps with this combo. Delphi 1 for the first and with
Delphi 3 for the current.  Got no complaints, lotsa little problems, but
none insurmountable.  Having to go thru both BDE and ODBC produces alot
of traffic, but TITAN's driver about to be released sounds promising.
Would definately suggest Orpheus and InfoPower. The former for awesome
edit controls and notebooks, the latter for grids, dbcombos and dblookup
combos. The first app done in Delphi 1 and SQA 5.0 has been running
almost 2 years and have had a total of 1 (one) phone call, and it was to
increase a field size! System Administrator has pretty much hands-off
operation on the DB, tho I don't think the thing is real huge at this
point, under 20 megs i think. Might also suggest
Stardesigner/Powerdesigner for designing and building db's..
Also, SQA's online infobase and newsgroups and support are quite good.

All typed out now, but maybe this'll help..

Rob

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Hi,

Well I haven't used it with Sybase . I have done a quite a large healthcare
project using Windows 95, Delphi 2.0 and Oracle 7.3.3 and it has turned up
pretty nice. Delphi components are nice and you can definately use the
inheritance feature of object pascal and enhance and develope your own
components. Program size does blow up. A small application would come up to
at least 1.5 MB and to 3.5 MB for a medium size appln, you would need to
think of deploying DLLs at this stage, developing which in Delphi is very
easy. If you are thinking of working with COM or ActiveX than that is well
supported in Delphi 3.0 . You must get some basics straight regarding
Circular reference
and implementation variables in Delphi . One of the problems which I faced
is  "End of communication channel" error between the server and Delphi, but
there could be various reasons for this. But the worst problem was
"SQLHourGlass cursor" problem in Delphi 2.0 , associated with BDE,  this
seems to have been fixed in Delphi 3.0 , but it is
definately a nagging problem. Also the TStringGrid component has some
refreshing problems in Delphi 2.0, which I used extensively.

Except for the SQLHourGlass problem I was happy using Delphi with SQL .

Ashish

Quote
Michael Mount wrote:
> Hi!  My company is in the beginning stages of developing a new mission
> critical application.  We want to go C/S and have decided to use Sybase
> SQL Anywhere.  Originally, we were planning to use VB5 as a front-end
> but have run into problems getting support and answers.  I have
> recommended Delphi 2/3 for a front-end because I prefer it, but I want
> what is best for the company.

> Now, here comes the "OPINION" part... Has anyone out there successfully
> developed an application using Delphi 2/3 and SQL Anywhere?  What is
> your opinion on the combination?  ANY responses would be appreciated (to
> group or me personally) even if it is just "Yes, DON'T DO IT MAN!!!" or
> "Stick with VB".  If yes, do you have any "words of wisdom"??

> I posted a similar message on the VB group and got but one response,
> hoping for more here.

> Mucho Thanx - Mike

Re:Seeking Opinions...


We are currently developing an application using Delphi 3.01 and SQL
Anywhere 5.503.

We are generally very happy with this combination, except for the speed
(going through BDE and ODBC is a pain !) If you have a fast machine, and
enough ram, this is not very noticeable. This should be resolved once Titan
SQL Anywhere for Delphi is available and bug free.

There are also a few minor bugs, but nothing insurmountable. TStoredProc
has some funnies with SQL Anywhere and also no field can be larger than
32Kb - a pain for graphics and other blobs (there are workarounds
available).

The newsgroups ( this one and sybase.public.sqlanywhere.general ) are great
and very supportive.

I have developed in both VB and Delphi and while each has its strengths and
weaknesses, my overall preference is Delphi.

SQL Anywhere is a powerful, quick and robust database and serves our needs.
The SQL Central Administrator is immensely useful.

Hope this helps

Regards,
Warren van Niekerk <senti...@icon.co.za>
Sentient Software
Software that thinks for itself

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Thanks for your response.  What is the SQL Hourglass problem?  I've seen
an hourglass with SQL written under it in some of my testing so far - I
assume this is to what you're refering - but why is this a problem?

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Thanks for your response.  What is the SQL Hourglass problem?  I've seen
an hourglass with SQL written under it in some of my testing so far - I
assume this is to what you're refering - but why is this a problem?

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Rob,
Thanks for your response.  We are considering Orpheus anyway (actually
the Orpheus controls were part of the catalyst to switch - we've heard
only great things about them) and will look into InfoPower tools also -
one of my complaints with Delphi has been their Lookup Combos and Lists
having insufficient capabilities for real applications without serious
modifications (but at least they work as you would expect).  We had just
purchased AppModeler for the DB design and are struggling through
learning it.  Looks powerful but documentation is well into the useless
arena.  The Titan engine has been released but I have been unable to get
it to compile into the library (trial version).  I figure I'll stick to
the BDE for now...  Thanks again - Mike

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Warren,
Thanks for the response.  They all have been extremely helpful.  I have
been watching the 32K limit problem on this newsgroup (and Sybase),
fortunately we won't be storing individual fields of that size for some
time and I imagine the problem (I get the impression it is within the
BDE) will be resolved by the time it becomes an issue for us (Is your
workaround the variable at the server approach?).  Titan claims that
their engine does not have the same limitation.  We're going to be
running workstations on W95 (486-120 to Pentium 133's) with 16MB ram and
a Netware 3.12 server (Pentium 200) with 64MB ram.  Do you think we will
see the speed problems with the BDE?  This is kind of a minimal
configuration.  Thanks alot - Mike

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Michael,

If you use the Delphi 3.01 c/s version instead of the other non-client
server versions net traffic shouldn't be a problem.  Using the SQL Links
with the BDE instead of the ODBC.  (Never did like ODBC) And it seems you
have more control with the SQL Links (Hour Glass, etc.).

I've done projects with Delphi 1,2,3 as well with VB 4,5 and still cannot
figure out why people still use VB over Delphi for 90% of their projects.
I have to admit there are features in VB that I like, however, the benefits
in Delphi, such as having most of the system calls implemented in the VCL
as opposed to implementing the ".DLL" calls yourself, much surpass what
I've seen from VB.  I totally agree that the combos need work, a lot.  I
use the grids extensively and have not run into problems as indicated in
the other response.  I've also acquired a grid from the Delphi super page
named TAlignGrid which has helped extensively in design time.  That's
another feature in Delphi that you wouldn't see in VB, the inheritance
factor.  Take an object and modify it to suite your needs and use it
instead.

I know a lot of people are all hipped up about ActiveX (".OCX"), however, I
stay away from it. From my experience their very problematic (install,
registering, backward compatibility, etc.).

Hope this helps,

Michael Bobowski

Michael Mount <mmo...@turbont.net> wrote in article
<3465D060.1E0DD...@turbont.net>...

Quote
> Rob,
> Thanks for your response.  We are considering Orpheus anyway (actually
> the Orpheus controls were part of the catalyst to switch - we've heard
> only great things about them) and will look into InfoPower tools also -
> one of my complaints with Delphi has been their Lookup Combos and Lists
> having insufficient capabilities for real applications without serious
> modifications (but at least they work as you would expect).  We had just
> purchased AppModeler for the DB design and are struggling through
> learning it.  Looks powerful but documentation is well into the useless
> arena.  The Titan engine has been released but I have been unable to get
> it to compile into the library (trial version).  I figure I'll stick to
> the BDE for now...  Thanks again - Mike

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Michael Mount <mmo...@turbont.net> wrote in article
<3465D20C.2D6B5...@turbont.net>...

Quote
> Warren,
> Thanks for the response.  They all have been extremely helpful.  I have
> been watching the 32K limit problem on this newsgroup (and Sybase),
> fortunately we won't be storing individual fields of that size for some
> time and I imagine the problem (I get the impression it is within the
> BDE) will be resolved by the time it becomes an issue for us (Is your
> workaround the variable at the server approach?).

Yes, using a connection variable and appending 32Kb chunks.

Quote
> Titan claims that
> their engine does not have the same limitation.  

We await a bug free beta ( with bated breath.... :-)

Quote
> We're going to be
> running workstations on W95 (486-120 to Pentium 133's) with 16MB ram and
> a Netware 3.12 server (Pentium 200) with 64MB ram.  Do you think we will
> see the speed problems with the BDE?  This is kind of a minimal
> configuration.  Thanks alot - Mike

I tried with a Pentium 133 with 32MB Ram and that was quite acceptable,
though with a Pentium 200 MMX with 64Kb it is not noticeable at all !

Regards
Warren van Niekerk
Sentient Software
Software that thinks for itself

Re:Seeking Opinions...


We are developing a mission critical app using D3 c/s and Sybase 11.  We
originally started using 'Anywhere'.

Here's what we found:

1. You don't need Delphi C/S if you use 'Anywhere' because it doesn't
support it natively, it can only use it through ODBC. Regular Sybase 11 can
be supported natively.

2. SQL Anywhere doesn't support multi processors on NT (which is our
platform). Sybase 11 does.

3. SQL Central for Anywhere also had some issues (ie run time errors) that
Central with Sybase 11 does not.

4. The installed base of Regular Sybase is greater than the installed base
of Anywhere. (which product will receive more development dollars, bug
fixes etc.)

5. We were able to buy 11 competively because we used an upgrade from
Access. ( no, ofcourse we don't use Access. We had it because we had many
copies of Office.)

fwiw

hope it helps

Charles Lam

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Michael,
I was under the impression that the Borland SQL Links did not offer a
link to SQL Anywhere, only to System 11.  Has this changed?  Or am I
just plain wrong?  

We are probably going to use the Professional edition of Delphi 3.0 and
wait for the Titan engine to evolve out of Beta.  From what I understand
we can implement the Titan Engine simply by replacing the TDatabase
components with Titan's (it may be more complex than that).  Thanks for
your response! - Mike

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Quote
Charles Lam wrote:

> We are developing a mission critical app using D3 c/s and Sybase 11.  We
> originally started using 'Anywhere'.

> Here's what we found:

> 1. You don't need Delphi C/S if you use 'Anywhere' because it doesn't
> support it natively, it can only use it through ODBC. Regular Sybase 11 can
> be supported natively.

I thought this was true!

Quote
> 2. SQL Anywhere doesn't support multi processors on NT (which is our
> platform). Sybase 11 does.

From my understanding SQLA 6 will support SMP.  Netware 3.12 does not
support it so it doesn't really apply to us yet.

Quote
> 3. SQL Central for Anywhere also had some issues (ie run time errors) that
> Central with Sybase 11 does not.

I was unaware of this but will watch out for it!

Quote
> 4. The installed base of Regular Sybase is greater than the installed base
> of Anywhere. (which product will receive more development dollars, bug
> fixes etc.)

This statement is probably true, but we don't feel that we need an
enterprise class database - we only need 25 users.

Quote
> 5. We were able to buy 11 competively because we used an upgrade from
> Access. ( no, ofcourse we don't use Access. We had it because we had many
> copies of Office.)

Still much more expensive than SQLA isn't it??

Quote
> fwiw

> hope it helps

Yes, very much.  I still feel that support will be as good for SQLA as
System 11 from the newsgroups?  There are enough similarities between
the products that System 11 folks can help with SQLA and visa-versa I
think.  Again the long and short term expense of System 11 kind of rules
it out for a small company like ours.  Thanks alot for your response! -
Mike

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Well in Delphi 2.0 if you open another form, from one and perform some SQL
query
operation and exit from the created form , then when u return back to the
orignal form the
SQL Hourglass appears and stays. This does not happen always. This is known
problem and has been fixed in Delphi 3.0 and also you can disable the
SQLHourGlass option by
setting the Session.SQLHougGlass property to false.

Ashish

Quote
Michael Mount wrote:
> Thanks for your response.  What is the SQL Hourglass problem?  I've seen
> an hourglass with SQL written under it in some of my testing so far - I
> assume this is to what you're refering - but why is this a problem?

Re:Seeking Opinions...


Quote
>From my understanding SQLA 6 will support SMP.  Netware 3.12 does not
>support it so it doesn't really apply to us yet.

good luck!

 I am sure the installed base of Unix/Sybase is extremely large.
(therefore, lots of bug fixes, patches, updates)

I am fairly sure the installed base of NT/Sybase is much smaller but
growing.

The installed base of Netware Sybase is probably very small and limited in
growth. (I will not start a death of Netware thread.  We love and use
Netware, but the fact remains you can probably not expect a lot of support
for Netware/Sybase)

The price for the Sybase NT 11 seats was very reasonable. If I remember
right, $35 per seat competitive upgrade from Access.

fwiw
Charles Lam

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