Board index » delphi » Re: There is no .NET in Vista Code?

2006-03-22 04:35:44 PM
delphi250
Ryan
 

"Ryan McGinty" writes:
no gradient as "doing something" but it still has the exact same, or
slightly worse, repaint "tracks" as Omea when you drag a window across it.
In the case of Google Earth it is the same when you drag the window across
only the left side combox area, nothing fancy or complex going on there. And
what about those Excel worksheets? So why wouldn't this irk you just as much
as WinForms.<g>
If folks feel that this is a ball-busting show-stopper then get busy and
convince the Delphi VCL.NET folks to make a "bolt-on" framework to augment
the .NET framework and provide blazing fast VCL Forms that replace those
stogy pokey WinForms. Sell it for a reasonable price and conquer the market.
IMO that would be far easier to sell than trying to ween millions of VS
weenies to use full blown Delphi.
Heck, they could even resurrect those early classic dBase ads about Bilge
Pumps, surely Borland retained rights to those ads when they disposed of
dBase.<g>
 

Chris Burrows writes:
*never* be able to assume that your customer already
has the version of .NET installed that your application
requires. Not while the framework remains offered as a
separate redistributable.
If, from Vista onwards, M$ stopped releasing .NET as
a separate entity from their OS releases (except as,
say, compatibility downloads for older Windows versions)
and .NET became a fully fledged, built-in subsystem
peer of Win32/Win64 then your point would eventually
stand as the newer OS releases took over market share...
I had hoped that they would eventually go down that road
- AFAIK it might even have been in their heads before
the Vista re-write - but I now see no evidence /at all/
that they are actually even moving towards this.
.NET application to a /specific/ framework version
was to allow M$ sufficient legroom such that they
don't have to guarantee backwards compatibility
between framework versions. If you tie up your code
to a specific version, you /must/ always prepare to
ship that version.
Alternatively, if you did choose to allow your
application to "float up" to use whatever the latest
version of the framework is installed on the target
machine then you will probably either get shafted
because the version the customer has is /older/ than
the one you developed against or, alternatively, it
is a /newer/ framework version that has moved the
goalposts in some undetermined way that will break
your app.
Even if you strike it lucky and the version you coded
against is actually already installed, a later version
of the framework which is installed by another
application can (and will!) break yours when your app
floats up to use that version. I have seen such things
happen first hand and that was when only /two/ versions
of the framework (1.0 and 1.1) were out in the wild!
IMO, the whole floating up thing is a disaster without
the safety net of guaranteed backwards compatibility.
But, as the chap in the other thread who is having
nightmares converting his ASP.NET 1.1 site to ASP.NET
2.0 might testify, that old backward compatibility
religion seems to have gone right out of fashion at
Redmond... :-)
 

to mention it is brand new and not almost 5 years old...
me that badly because I know it is the end product, not what they started
with, that is causing the issue...
Ryan
 

"Ryan McGinty" writes:
Forms are as icky as WinForms, gosh you are forgiving.<RBG>I don't think
having the ability to do cool things should slow down the repainting of an
empty window. What I keep hammering on is the fallacy of some folks who for
years have been saying, don't use WinForms and wait for Avalon, it is gonna
replace WinForms. Ain't gonna happen.
Time to move on folks, there's nothing to see here...
 

"Lurkio" <spam?@no.thanks>writes
redistributable then I am unlikely to use it to develop end-user products,
I'll just continue to use it in-house.
supporting and maintaining a major application simultaneously across several
flavours of DOS, Novell Netware, various versions of VMS, and multiple
variants of UNIX. .NET is a walk in the park by comparison.
 

Chris Burrows writes:
And given that they ain't going to provide a linker
(the notion of a linker apparently goes against the security
model) then this problem is just not going to go away any
time soon - if ever :-(
minded tools vendor could do something to help make that
whole nightmarish Linux deployment shuffle a thing of
the past ;-)
 

"Chris Burrows" writes:
will be before it is adopted by enough end users for you to safely assume
that everyone that is a potential buyer of your nifty WinFX end-user
products will have a Vista machine? My guess is never! One reason is that
WinFX runtime will be available as a free download for today's Win-XP and
Win-Server 2003 machines so there will be much less incentive to upgrade the
OS or buy new machines just to get Vista with WinFX.
 

seems to me like it would, but I can not find anywhere that says one way or the other.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_____________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Skype : jim.cooper
Tabdee Ltd www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
_____________________________________________
 

Yes WinFX does require Win-XP SP2 and Net 2.0 be installed but nothing else
just for the runtime - I have the latest Feb CTP runtime installed on my
machine, along with The Orca extensions for VS 2005 that provide XAML
support including Cider which is the WinFX design surface for VS and it's
more than a little "green" at this point. WinFX is said to be "feature
complete" for WPF (Avalon) and Go Live license available for both WCF and
WFF. Up to this point the CTPs for WPF have usually been "code breaking" but
that should (hopefully) be minimized going forward as they find and remove
bugs. To get all this to work together they require you to download the
entire Windows SDK which is bigger than all outdoors.
I also have the Expression Interactive Designer EID pronounced "Sparkle"
which was built with Avalon. Microsoft is emphatic that it is a design tool
intended for Graphic Designers that works in conjunction with VS but I think
of it more as a traditional IDE, it can start new projects, build and run as
an exe and even deploy the exe. The idea is that Graphic Designers do the UI
using EID and Developers using VS do all the rest but neither needs to
modify the other's work product. EID shares project files VS.
Amazingly all this hasn't caused a problem and I think I have had only one
blip with EID.<knock on wood>
"Jim Cooper" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes

So if you target Vista (yes, I know, an issue in itself), then John's problem
with big downloads goes away.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_____________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Skype : jim.cooper
Tabdee Ltd www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
_____________________________________________
 

Jim Cooper writes:
I'm glad I am using CDs as much as I am. I think just biting the bullet
and including the required version of the framework on the disc is
going to save me a bunch of support headaches.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
 

"Jim Cooper" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
problem(s) so can not respond.
 

on about big downloads in.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_____________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Skype : jim.cooper
Tabdee Ltd www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
_____________________________________________
 

Jim Cooper writes:
part of Windows Update.
--
Jon Robertson
Borland Certified Advanced Delphi 7 Developer
MedEvolve, Inc
www.medevolve.com