Board index » delphi » Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!


2005-06-23 04:26:51 AM
delphi94
Francois Malan writes:
Quote
Ahhh Commondore 64...

I still remember the 56 machine code instructions of that lovely 6510
CPU @ 1MHz, the beauty of the overlay kernel, the sweet music from
the SID....
Right on! 3 oscillators *and* a white noise generator <g>
--
Carl
 
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Carl Caulkett writes:
Quote
Francois Malan writes:

>Ahhh Commondore 64...
>
>I still remember the 56 machine code instructions of that lovely
>6510 CPU @ 1MHz, the beauty of the overlay kernel, the sweet music
>from the SID....

Right on! 3 oscillators and a white noise generator <g>
Indeed. But I still liked my Beeb a lot better.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"Sometimes when reading Goethe I have the paralyzing suspicion that he
is trying to be funny."
- Guy Davenport
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" said
Quote
>But, you know what, I don't have any customers out there chanting, "We
>want our .NET Apps!"
>>

Of course not. I doubt there will be many customers out there chanting:
"We want our Win32 apps", either. IMO, .NET is a platform for developers,
a technology, and not something a customer specifically asks for.
Sure! that is sorta my point, customer's are not chanting for either Win32
or .NET - they just want there apps to work. However, I will say that some
of them want their apps to work across multiple platforms (i.e. Java apps).
My point though in my blog is that VCL for Win32 (and perhaps a future one
for Win64) is just as effective if not more than .NET has been for those who
have hung around Borland. And, that despite it is alleged demise, Win32/64
will persist and will continue to be of interest to both developer and user.
I guess one could argue that Borland had MS beat on the RAD infrastructure
with VCL in comparison to MFC, and that is a key reason for the genesis of
.NET, but from a developer's standpoint, I am not sure .NET is truly any
better than VCL.
So my whole point was to give props for the VCL and emphasize for those
caught on the .NET bandwagon than the Windows API is still alive and well!!!
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

"John Kaster (Borland)" wrote...
Quote
Max writes:

>www.simventions.com/gustavson/2005/06/customer-interest-needs-n
>et-win32.html

ok, I read it. Saw nothing new, and nothing that contradicts what
Borland is doing. I see some questionable conclusions based on his
opinions, but that is nothing new, either. Now I have to ask: So, what?
LOLs - I question my own conclusions all the time John - like now... what
did i say that was questionable? ;-)
- You mean Win64 isn't real?
- You mean DeXter isnt coming?
- You guys didn't get sold hook, line and sinker on .NET?
- You mean you guys didn't actually plant Anders inside Microsoft and .NET
is not really a secret Borland technology just as we all suspected?
(I'm just playing)
All kidding aside, my comments where more of a caricature / snap-shot view
based on metaphors and anaologies describing where we've been, what we've
been concentrating on (i.e., .NET), and just the reality of things. It was
not intended to be a poignant message for Mr. Kaster, David I. or Team B.
If anything it is a plug for the WinAPI, for the VCL framework and for DeXter
(C++Builder) -- and a chance for you Delphi guys to smile and be smug
because you still have Win32 capablity (you lucky dogs). Hopefully, those
who read it, found some amu{*word*224}t from it and/or could relate. Obviously it
was spoken from a C++ developer's perspective; and, if you wish, you can
certainly hold that against me (but you know what, I do delphi too when they
let me).
r/ Paul
Quote

--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

"Craig Stuntz [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM [a.k.a. acm.org]>wrote
in message news:42b990c4$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
Quote
Kostya writes:

>As
>for registering COM servers (or any common services
>available to all applications) there has to be some
>common repository. No way around it. Even if
>you call it some other fancy name instead of registry

Did you miss the point entirely? There is *no way* to register an
ActiveX component by simply copying a file into a place. can not be done.
The problem isn't that the registry is used to store the data, it's
that you need to use regsvr32 or the like when deploying your app.

You asked why registry use was required for Win32 apps and I answered:
Because MS has designed the system in such a way that you frequently
can't just copy a few files and run. That is IMHO a design mistake
which they are trying to resolve in .NET. They could potentially fix it
for older technologies, too, but they haven't.
Wasn't the registry intended to stop our apps from using all those .ini
files?
It seems like only yesterday.... ;-)
Kirk Halgren
"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created
it."
-- Albert Einstein
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

No, white noise... I am {*word*60}ed to white noise. Now that I don't use my C64
anymore, I turn to this newsgroup for some sweet white noise...
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Carl Caulkett writes:

>Francois Malan writes:
>
>>Ahhh Commondore 64...
>>
>>I still remember the 56 machine code instructions of that lovely
>>6510 CPU @ 1MHz, the beauty of the overlay kernel, the sweet music
>>from the SID....
>
>Right on! 3 oscillators and a white noise generator <g>

Indeed. But I still liked my Beeb a lot better.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de

"Sometimes when reading Goethe I have the paralyzing suspicion that he
is trying to be funny."
- Guy Davenport
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Francois Malan writes:
Quote
No, white noise... I am {*word*60}ed to white noise.
I could write a program for you, generating a constant flow of white
noise, if you like. <vbg>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"Do you program in Assembly?" she asked. "NOP," he said.
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

"Paul Gustavson" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
My point though in my blog is that VCL for Win32 (and perhaps a future one
for Win64) is just as effective if not more than .NET has been for those
who
have hung around Borland. And, that despite it is alleged demise, Win32/64
will persist and will continue to be of interest to both developer and
user.
I guess one could argue that Borland had MS beat on the RAD infrastructure
with VCL in comparison to MFC, and that is a key reason for the genesis of
.NET, but from a developer's standpoint, I am not sure .NET is truly any
better than VCL.
I see your point and agree to an extent. A comparison to CLX instead of VCL
would be better.
However, there are still several areas where .NET beats VCL (or CLX). .NET
has a larger library of classes, allows development in several different
languages, and may prove to be cross-platform (to some degree - at some
point in the future).
Also, .NET standardized data types across languages - something the VCL
simply could not do. The VCL did a nice job of wrapping the Win32 API, but
using the Win32 API was still often non-trivial, especially mapping data
types.
IMO, .NET is a significantly better OS interface with some nice "helper"
classes built in. I am not sure Borland could have pulled it off alone, IMO
it is an OS improvement and required the OS vendor's involvement. I guess
Java kinda pulled it off, but I think the backing of MS will make .NET fly
higher and farther than Java ever did. I could, of course, be wrong.
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

"Craig Stuntz [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM [a.k.a. acm.org]>wrote
in message news:42b978a1$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
Quote
Arthur Hoornweg writes:

>Then we can all distribute tiny little native code applications that
>fit on a single floppy and do xcopy deployment.

What's a floppy? Is that one of those things I used with my Commodore
64? I can not really remember.
You must be thinking of the tape cassette storage device.
Kirk Halgren
"In America, anyone can become president. that is one of the risks you take."
-- Adlai E. Stevenson Jr.
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Paul Gustavson writes:
Quote
Obviously it was spoken from a C++ developer's perspective; and, if
you wish, you can certainly hold that against me (but you know what,
I do delphi too when they let me).
I don't hold anything in your message against you. I just don't get the
poster's point. Obviously, he thinks we had something to learn from
your post, but there was nothing new to me in it. So I am asking him
what his point is.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Please go to QC! There I can see two things: Many reported QC's and much
more QC's not closed. Borland has a problem with Delphi. The problem is the
quality. The whole manpower was directed to .Net/C#/ALM/Enterprise/Inprise
etc. in the past.
"John Kaster (Borland)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>schrieb im Newsbeitrag
Quote
Paul Gustavson writes:

>Obviously it was spoken from a C++ developer's perspective; and, if
>you wish, you can certainly hold that against me (but you know what,
>I do delphi too when they let me).

I don't hold anything in your message against you. I just don't get the
poster's point. Obviously, he thinks we had something to learn from
your post, but there was nothing new to me in it. So I am asking him
what his point is.

--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

"Scott Roberts" wrote...
Quote
I see your point and agree to an extent. A comparison to CLX instead of
VCL
would be better.
sure from a cross platform postion - but CLX never reached a mature state --
and, at this point, .NET has not reached a mature state for cross platform.
Quote
However, there are still several areas where .NET beats VCL (or CLX). .NET
has a larger library of classes, allows development in several different
languages, and may prove to be cross-platform (to some degree - at some
point in the future).
larger library - sure - Microsoft is a bigger machine
different languages - I suppose so (C#, VB.Net, Delphi, and to some extent
C++managed) - Win32 API supports different languages too!
may prove to be cross-platform - that is certainly been the hope - but I'm
not seeing it yet (yes - I know about Mono)
Quote
Also, .NET standardized data types across languages - something the VCL
simply could not do. The VCL did a nice job of wrapping the Win32 API, but
using the Win32 API was still often non-trivial, especially mapping data
types.
VCL - hands-down has been the front runner on wrapping Win32.
Quote
IMO, .NET is a significantly better OS interface with some nice "helper"
classes built in. I am not sure Borland could have pulled it off alone, IMO
it is an OS improvement and required the OS vendor's involvement.
Not knocking .NET - only that Win32 is still viable - and VCL ontop of it
(as a wrapper / framework) is also still viable. Win64 is a very real
platform that needs development support too - why not VCL for that as well.
Why depend solely on .NET. (Sometimes it may be prudent to cut out the
middle man)
Quote
I guess
Java kinda pulled it off, but I think the backing of MS will make .NET fly
higher and farther than Java ever did. I could, of course, be wrong.
That's where I disagree (at this point). I just don't see .NET winning the
cross platform battle over Java. (Even though it is actually a cleaner
interface).
Thx for the thoughts.
r/ Paul
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

"John Kaster (Borland)" wrote...
Quote

I just don't get the
poster's point. Obviously, he thinks we had something to learn from
your post, but there was nothing new to me in it. So I am asking him
what his point is.
gotcha - yeah it wasn't intended to make any waves in the delphi community.
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Max writes:
Quote
Please go to QC!
This is very vague, and also nothing new. See previous posts on this
topic for discussions of how Borland is using QC.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Kostya writes:
Quote
>.NET is a platform for developers, a technology, and not
>something a customer specifically asks for.

And the developers were in desperate need for .NET
to be developed, Especially VB(Visual Basic) guys.

Kostya
Testing - sorry...
--
Colin - Author of XanaNews