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Re: D2007


2007-03-28 03:25:21 AM
delphi260
Bruce McGee writes:
Quote
So, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Personally, I think they deserve a lot of credit.
Bruce, at some point, CodeGear has to start walking the walk. They have
got to stop screwing up. They're not proving they're different. They're
rushing {*word*99} out the door. that is my take, anyway.
--
-Brion
There's no such thing as 'one, true way;'
- Mercedes Lackey
 
 

Re: D2007

"David Erbas-White" wrote
Quote
It's giving people FIVE FREAKING DAYS (and I am being
charitable, as it is noon on the first day) to decide
I get short term sales ads all the time, and in market segments from
clothing to software to training to vacation packages. The idea that
CodeGear's 5-day offer is remarkable in any way is just silly.
And in any event--the product has been on pre-release discount for some
time, so this can hardly be portrayed as a isolated or unexpected move. It's
simply a final piece in a continuing launch campaign. I for one see nothing
wrong with a last-minute, short term offer for those who considered buying
pre-release and didn't, but who might want to change their minds now that
it's actually out.
bobD
 

Re: D2007

Fernando,
| As for those affraid of missing out on the special 29th event, just
| mail DavidI with your SA details and saying you don't have yet the
| 2007 key and I am sure he'll sort things out.
Many of us have not yet received our "SA details." <grumble>
--
Q
03/27/2007 12:52:17
XanaNews Version 1.17.5.7 [Q's salutation mod]
 

Re: D2007

Bob Dawson writes:
Quote
"David Erbas-White" wrote
>It's giving people FIVE FREAKING DAYS (and I am being
>charitable, as it is noon on the first day) to decide

I get short term sales ads all the time, and in market segments from
clothing to software to training to vacation packages. The idea that
CodeGear's 5-day offer is remarkable in any way is just silly.

And in any event--the product has been on pre-release discount for some
time, so this can hardly be portrayed as a isolated or unexpected move. It's
simply a final piece in a continuing launch campaign. I for one see nothing
wrong with a last-minute, short term offer for those who considered buying
pre-release and didn't, but who might want to change their minds now that
it's actually out.

bobD


I get short term ads all the time -- but not for software (usual minimum
is 2-3 weeks).
Just for grins, I will look in my 'trash' box and see what ads I've
received recently...
March 20th, received an ad for PDF Converter 4 from Nuance, expires 3/31
(found another ad for the same thing, dated 3/13, same expiration)
March 20th, received an ad for Corel products, expires 4/3
All of the other ads I am finding are for things like Amazon, Borders,
Target, Costco, Iomega -- and several of these are for 'sale of the
week' types of things that have a 3-5 day lifespan.
I'm obviously on CodeGear's mailing list, as I received this email from
them, as well as a previous ad for Delphi 2007. But this is the FIRST
ad I have received from them for the 'Delphi for PHP' product.
But continuing defending them, as the number of defenders appears to be
dwindling...
David Erbas-White
 

Re: D2007

"David Erbas-White" wrote
Quote

But continuing defending them, as the number of defenders
appears to be dwindling...
And you see that as a good thing? Are you winning?
bobD
 

Re: D2007

David Erbas-White writes:
Quote
But continuing defending them, as the number of defenders appears to
be dwindling...
Just to be clear -- you are upset that we've offered you a lower price
for a five more days?
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: D2007

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
David Erbas-White writes:

>But continuing defending them, as the number of defenders appears to
>be dwindling...

Just to be clear -- you are upset that we've offered you a lower price
for a five more days?

I'm not quite sure what it is that you're saying, so I will clarify from
my end.
The first, and only, 'marketing' email that I received regarding Delphi
for PHP arrived today, and gives me 4 1/2 days (including one weekend
day) to respond. It is for a product with no track record, for a
company that either HAS a track record (Borland's, and not a good one),
or DOESN'T HAVE a track record (since you seem to want to continually
harp on CodeGear not being Borland).
There has been no way for anyone to have visibility on the product, and
the CodeGear track record has several ups and downs.
I have no current interest in doing PHP. However, that MAY change. I
find the product offering 'interesting', and in the normal course of
things (if this had been an offer for a few weeks, for example), I would
have put the offer in my 'pending' file, and would have reviewed it as
folks comment on the product. Odds are 50-50 that I'd have bought
it -- your discount 'suckering' (my phrase) would have worked.
Give me 4.5 days to decide, and it goes right into the (virtual)
circular file. Especially with an unproven product -- it is a whole
different thing when versioning something, but even then, Borland has
made some past huge mistakes.
So, am I upset that you're offering a discount? No, not at all. I
think offering it for less than 5 days, for an unproven product, is
going to scare away more people who MIGHT have bought the product than
it will bring in.
Just my opinion, of course. And yes, my cynicism and skepticism meters
have (over the course of years) been turned up from 'stun' to 'kill'... <G>
David Erbas-White
 

Re: D2007

Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote
Bruce McGee writes:

>So, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
>
>Personally, I think they deserve a lot of credit.

Bruce, at some point, CodeGear has to start walking the walk. They
have got to stop screwing up. They're not proving they're different.
They're rushing {*word*99} out the door. that is my take, anyway.
That's the thing. I think they are.
BDS 2006 has been working beautifully, and even better with the
patches. Delphi 2007 is even better (it's SOOO snappy) and solves some
long standing problems (consuming some wacky web services). Both my
Delphi 2007 and Delphi for PHP deliveries went off without a hitch.
There was a problem with copies of Delphi that I ordered for a third
party, and people from CodeGear got it straightened up over the weekend.
Now look at things like the Delphi hours, 30 camtasias in 30 (or so)
days, 24 hours of Delphi, CodeRage, a 24 hour CodeRage follow up, a
win32 only release based almost entirely on customer feedback, finally
offering electronic delivery. The CEO is blogging for crying out loud.
Don't get me wrong. When they{*word*222}up (and they do), I yell plenty. I
just don't yell in here. I am pretty sure they still have a picture of
me at Borland Canada's security desk.
These aren't the only vendors I have to deal with. I don't care as
much about mistakes and other bumps in the as long as the people
responsible step up and make it right. CodeGear is stepping up big
time, taking responsibility and fixing problems. Some of which aren't
even theirs. Have you ever tried getting Microsoft Canada to honour a
partner agreement? It isn't nearly as much fun as it sounds.
I understand that you're frustrated and aren't just whining. Borland
Canada pulled the expiring SA stunt with me, too (Did I mention that
I'm not allowed in the building?). I just think CodeGear deserves
credit for the things they're doing well. Constructive criticism is
more effective than just complaining (again, not aimed just at you).
When they do a good job, people should say so.
Now, if they can only cough up some seriously cool Delphi branded
products.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
 

Re: D2007

David Erbas-White writes:
Quote
But continuing defending them, as the number of defenders appears to
be dwindling...
And you keep right on bashing. Mind you, if they do this right, it'll
be tougher for you to find things to gripe about. Legitimate things,
anyway.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
 

Re: D2007

Venkatesh VT writes:
Quote
If you can't get it right the first time , you can never get it
right for ever.This is specially true for big corporates.
That's not *at all* true. No one, personally or corporately, can get
everything right the first time. A good company gets most things *close* to
right most of the time in the long run.
In this particular case I really don't understand your complaint. As a brand
new company that is still in the transition stage of building independent
infrastructure (thus still having to use some Borland infrastructure) they
have *introduced* ESD from the date of RTM, have all international
translations available simultaneosly for the first time, and despite not
being able to send media out as soon as they would like - and all customers
would like - are still getting it out sooner than was ever possible before
under Borland - mailings didn't *start* until a ~month after RTM in the
past.
Somehow you consider this a "failure". Boggles my mind.
If you expect perfection from a new organization even while they are still
forming up their own systems and SOPs, I don't think there is a company in
the world that could possibly ever satisfy you.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"In a tornado, even turkeys can fly." - unknown
 

Re: D2007

Bruce McGee writes:
Quote
David Erbas-White writes:

>But continuing defending them, as the number of defenders appears to
>be dwindling...

And you keep right on bashing. Mind you, if they do this right, it'll
be tougher for you to find things to gripe about. Legitimate things,
anyway.

I will celebrate along with you when/if that happens.
I've previously listed some of the things I think they're doing right.
I'll continue to condemn the things I think they're doing wrong.
I see great strides in the aspect of 'listening' to the customers, and
in 'talking' to the customers, at least from the technical folks. I
still think marketing folks have their head where the sun doesn't shine.
And I still think that several of the management decisions are faulty
(to say the least).
David Erbas-White
 

Re: D2007

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
David Erbas-White writes:

>Just my opinion, of course.

David --

Okay, thanks. Certainly, if you can not make a decision about Delphi for
PHP within four days, then that is cool. Receiving a piece of mail you
got, as I am sure you know, doesn't force you to do anything. If the
offer isn't something you want to take advantage of, then by all
means, don't feel any pressure at all to take part in it.

I would guess, however, that others will be wanting to take advantage
of the offer. And we'll be grateful for all the orders.

I'm hoping that you got the real 'gist' of my concern -- and that is
that the 4-5 day offer makes CodeGear look like a high-pressure used-car
salesman (especially with a new product).
Offering 2-3 weeks (with time for reviews to be heard) is more like
dealing with the local Saturn (car) dealer (or at least how I have heard
they're supposed to be <G>).
I'm upset because I view the STRATEGY as a mistake, and ultimately bad
for CodeGear. I REALLY DO want CodeGear to succeed, or I wouldn't be
upset by bad STRATEGY.
David Erbas-White
 

Re: D2007

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
David Erbas-White writes:

>I'm hoping that you got the real 'gist' of my concern -- and that is
>that the 4-5 day offer makes CodeGear look like a high-pressure
>used-car salesman (especially with a new product).

I can not control your perceptions, of course, but my perception is that
we are doing what any other business does: trying to get people to
purchase now rather than later. Seems quite reasonable to me. I'm
sorry you disagree.

Well, that response (unfortunately) gives me more pause than anything,
because I read that as "We need to show more revenue by quarter's end,
so we'll forgo the correct long-term strategy in order to meet the
short-term quarterly revenue projections".
I guess the CodeGear apple really hasn't fallen far from the Borland tree...
David Erbas-White
 

Re: D2007

Joe Meyer writes:
Quote
I'm on BDS 2006 with SA. I received notification a week ago that I will
receive Delphi 2007. So far I haven't received anything. IMHO the SA
subscribers should be the first to receive new releases and not the last.
I was contacted by CodeGear this morning. Apparently there are a
multitude of systems with SA information, and one of them thought my SA
had expired. Unfortunately, that was the system being used to contact
folks for the second email.
If you haven't gotten your notice, contact your support rep or Charles
Odinot at CodeGear.com.
While I am irritated as all get out that an insane situation appears to
have happened with my SA registration information, Kudos to CodeGear for
being able to correct the situation within hours.
--
-Brion
There's no such thing as 'one, true way;'
- Mercedes Lackey
 

Re: D2007

"David Erbas-White" wrote
Quote

I'm hoping that you got the real 'gist' of my concern -- and that is that
the 4-5 day offer makes CodeGear look like a high-pressure
used-car salesman (especially with a new product).
The price (249) simply extends the pre-release offer that is been on the
CodeGear website for at least a month.
Quote
I'm upset because I view the STRATEGY as a mistake, and ultimately
bad for CodeGear. I REALLY DO want CodeGear to succeed, or I
wouldn't be upset by bad STRATEGY.
Balderdash. Offering discounts to early adopters could hardly be more comon
as a marketing strategy.
And virtually nothing about your continual criticism in this forum would
lead me to conclude that you "REALLY DO" want CodeGear to succeed. Taking
the opportunity to bash them for this _totally_ standard action as if it
were some new outbreak of CodeGear-peculiar insanity never before seen
hardly encourages me to alter my opinion.
bobD