Board index » delphi » Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!

Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!

I hate it. No more, no less. What I've been doing for the last hour, is
writing code in the wrong version of the unit.
Why ? Oh, yes, the old "Default Directory Story":

I'm working with a set of  *.pas files, all in one direcory. Then, I
need to open one file and rename it. A previous version of a file that
has been completely F...d up by an error in the Undo functionality.

I was a but quick (having lost 3 hours of work), and didn't see that the
f....ing Save As - dialog said 'C:\Program files\Borland\Delphi5\bin'
!!!! What do you give me ? WHEN DOES ANYONE WANT TO SAVE *ANY* .PAS FILE
IN THE \BIN directory ????
And, besides, I haven't saved ANY, I repeat *ANY*, or opened ANY file
from another location than the directory where my source files reside
during this programming session.

This very stupid, unintelligent behaviour from Delphi has been there
since Delphi 1.
This very stupid, unintelligent behaviour from me has been there since
Delphi 1. I don't know how many times I've been saving .pas and .dpr
files in the f... \bin directory.

They can't get the simplest thing right. F... amateurs.
--
Bjoerge Saether
Consultant / Developer
Asker, Norway
bsaether.removet...@online.no (remove the obvious)

 

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


Quote
>I was a but quick (having lost 3 hours of work), and didn't see that the
>f....ing Save As - dialog said 'C:\Program files\Borland\Delphi5\bin'
>!!!! What do you give me ? WHEN DOES ANYONE WANT TO SAVE *ANY* .PAS FILE
>IN THE \BIN directory ????
>And, besides, I haven't saved ANY, I repeat *ANY*, or opened ANY file
>from another location than the directory where my source files reside
>during this programming session.

>This very stupid, unintelligent behaviour from Delphi has been there
>since Delphi 1.
>This very stupid, unintelligent behaviour from me has been there since
>Delphi 1. I don't know how many times I've been saving .pas and .dpr
>files in the f... \bin directory.

>They can't get the simplest thing right. F... amateurs.

Golly gee. You have been having a wee temper tantrum, haven't we?  
Relax and foget your period pains.

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


Quote
> I was a but quick (having lost 3 hours of work), and didn't see that the
> f....ing Save As - dialog said 'C:\Program files\Borland\Delphi5\bin'

And this is Delphi's fault?!!!

Quote
> !!!! What do you give me ? WHEN DOES ANYONE WANT TO SAVE *ANY* .PAS FILE
> IN THE \BIN directory ????

How about when you have your own kernel files and are modifying them,
Einstein?

Quote

> They can't get the simplest thing right. F... amateurs.

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Brainiac. YOU didn't
realize you were saving to the directory. YOU didn't make a backup of your
work to revert back to in case of a problem. YOU wasted three hours over
YOUR mistake. Seems to me that the amateur is in reality... YOU! wipe your
sniffling nose and suck it up, man!

Good luck!!
-DrDelphi
http://www.drdelphi.com

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:41:14 +0200, "Bj?rge S?ther"

Quote
<REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> wrote:
>I hate it. No more, no less. What I've been doing for the last hour, is
>writing code in the wrong version of the unit.
>Why ? Oh, yes, the old "Default Directory Story":

>I'm working with a set of  *.pas files, all in one direcory. Then, I
>need to open one file and rename it. A previous version of a file that
>has been completely F...d up by an error in the Undo functionality.

>I was a but quick (having lost 3 hours of work), and didn't see that the
>f....ing Save As - dialog said 'C:\Program files\Borland\Delphi5\bin'
>!!!! What do you give me ? WHEN DOES ANYONE WANT TO SAVE *ANY* .PAS FILE
>IN THE \BIN directory ????
>And, besides, I haven't saved ANY, I repeat *ANY*, or opened ANY file
>from another location than the directory where my source files reside
>during this programming session.

>This very stupid, unintelligent behaviour from Delphi has been there
>since Delphi 1.
>This very stupid, unintelligent behaviour from me has been there since
>Delphi 1. I don't know how many times I've been saving .pas and .dpr
>files in the f... \bin directory.

>They can't get the simplest thing right. F... amateurs.

Been there, done that - many times.
I *love* Delphi but i hate it when that happens.  Very confusing.
(especially at 5 am after a lot of coffee and junk food)

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:41:14 +0200, "Bj?rge S?ther"
Quote
<REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> wrote in message

<Jl1y5.4478$mq2.72...@news1.online.no>:

Quote
>I was a but quick (having lost 3 hours of work), and didn't see that the
>f....ing Save As - dialog said 'C:\Program files\Borland\Delphi5\bin'
>!!!! What do you give me ? WHEN DOES ANYONE WANT TO SAVE *ANY* .PAS FILE
>IN THE \BIN directory ????

You started it there, so that's where it'll save things.  If you want
them saved somewhere else, change your shortcut to start it somewhere
else.

But a better idea is to save each project in a different directory
from the beginning.  When you create a unit, immediately save and
rename it.

Duncan Murdoch

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


Quote
Duncan Murdoch <murd...@fisher.stats.uwo.ca> wrote in message

news:39c8f0a5.14419283@newshost.uwo.ca...

Quote
> You started it there, so that's where it'll save things.  If you want
> them saved somewhere else, change your shortcut to start it somewhere
> else.

> But a better idea is to save each project in a different directory
> from the beginning.  When you create a unit, immediately save and
> rename it.

This clearly very sensible advice. No matter how intelligent your
development environment is, there is no substitute for thinking about what
you are doing and how you should go about it - before you barge in and start
cutting code.

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


"Dr. Delphi" <DrDel...@DrDelphi.com> skrev i melding
news:8qajec$jff$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
Quote
> > I was a but quick (having lost 3 hours of work), and didn't see that
the
> > f....ing Save As - dialog said 'C:\Program

files\Borland\Delphi5\bin'

Quote

> And this is Delphi's fault?!!!

No and Yes. It's annoying, the poor selection of default directory as
you engage "Open" or "Save" -dialogs. The problem I was describing, was
the SaveAs- dialog popping up with a default directory different from
the one I'd accessed during the session. Where did it get it from ?

Quote
> > !!!! What do you give me ? WHEN DOES ANYONE WANT TO SAVE *ANY* .PAS
FILE
> > IN THE \BIN directory ????

> How about when you have your own kernel files and are modifying them,
> Einstein?

I'm not saying Delphi should disallow me to save a .pas file in the \BIN
directory, I'm talking about the "random choice of default path"
behaviour. When Delphi can't determine in a sensible way what directory
is logically my "current" directory, it should of course choose my
project directory rather than delphi32.exe directory. The algoritm used,
or the lack of such, is what i'm mad at.

Quote
> > They can't get the simplest thing right. F... amateurs.

> Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Brainiac. YOU
didn't
> realize you were saving to the directory.

Only that I had accessed the very same directory about 10 times, and I
overlooked the fact that Delphi had changed my default directory the
11th time.

Quote
> YOU didn't make a backup of your
> work to revert back to in case of a problem.

This problem could not be saved with a backup. The problem was that I
was making modifications to a file other than the one I thought I was
working with, so I had to merge the modifications of two files...

Quote
> YOU wasted three hours over YOUR mistake.

You forget that it all started with a bug. A bug in the Undo - command.
This would cost me some time to recover no matter what.
Of course it's my mistake not to save my work. The lights could have
went out, for one...

Quote
> Seems to me that the amateur is in reality... YOU! wipe your
> sniffling nose and suck it up, man!

My nose is dry. It's good for one's mental health to get out the anger,
and maybe some Borland developers saw my CAPITAL LETTERED TOPIC, and
maybe on Friday or Saturday they'll release a Delphi Service Pack with
some of the shitty stuff fixed up...;-)

BTW, whenever someone makes me aware that an application I wrote
contains a bug that make other people's workday harder, I try to fix it.
In this sense, I'm less of an amateur than Delphi development team. They
really know how to make compilers, but they're not good at building
applications with them.

--
Bjoerge Saether
Consultant / Developer
Asker, Norway
bsaether.removet...@online.no (remove the obvious)

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


"Duncan Murdoch" <murd...@fisher.stats.uwo.ca> skrev i melding
news:39c8f0a5.14419283@newshost.uwo.ca...

Quote
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:41:14 +0200, "Bj?rge S?ther"
> <REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> wrote in message
> <Jl1y5.4478$mq2.72...@news1.online.no>:

> >I was a but quick (having lost 3 hours of work), and didn't see that
the
> >f....ing Save As - dialog said 'C:\Program files\Borland\Delphi5\bin'
> >!!!! What do you give me ? WHEN DOES ANYONE WANT TO SAVE *ANY* .PAS
FILE
> >IN THE \BIN directory ????

> You started it there, so that's where it'll save things.  If you want
> them saved somewhere else, change your shortcut to start it somewhere
> else.

You'll *have* to be a programmer to say it's logical to use the
compiler's path as a default directory..;-)
The shortcut tip is not bad at all, though...

Quote
> But a better idea is to save each project in a different directory
> from the beginning.  When you create a unit, immediately save and
> rename it.

Oh, yes, I do. Normally, one project per directory. And I allways save
the units before starting coding. What happens from time to time, is
that when I want to change a unit's name, Delphi has a weird idea of
where I would like to place this unit. Not the unit's current directory,
not the project's directory, but the compiler's !

--
Bjoerge Saether
Consultant / Developer
Asker, Norway
bsaether.removet...@online.no (remove the obvious)

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


"Terry Field" <tez...@nonspam.email.com> skrev i melding
news:389y5.771$Z06.7307@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Quote

> Duncan Murdoch <murd...@fisher.stats.uwo.ca> wrote in message
> news:39c8f0a5.14419283@newshost.uwo.ca...
> > You started it there, so that's where it'll save things.  If you
want
> > them saved somewhere else, change your shortcut to start it
somewhere
> > else.

> > But a better idea is to save each project in a different directory
> > from the beginning.  When you create a unit, immediately save and
> > rename it.

> This clearly very sensible advice. No matter how intelligent your
> development environment is, there is no substitute for thinking about
what
> you are doing and how you should go about it - before you barge in and
start
> cutting code.

We're not exactly talking about artificial intelligence here...
BTW, why is it concidered correct to use your last path as default
choice for your next open- or save-operation ? If you choose the same
directory 99 times, and the 100'th time pick another one, then this of
course overrides your "normal" choice. From a human point of view, this
is not very intelligent behaviour. Especially when other things indicate
that your last move was an exception...like accessing a VCL source
file...of course you didn't mean to change your default unit directory
for saving...

Well, seeing this would feel like science fiction, removing obvoius bugs
is my first wish...

--
Bjoerge Saether
Consultant / Developer
Asker, Norway
bsaether.removet...@online.no (remove the obvious)

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:42:37 +0200, "Bj?rge S?ther"

Quote
<REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> wrote:
>"Duncan Murdoch" <murd...@fisher.stats.uwo.ca> skrev i melding
>news:39c8f0a5.14419283@newshost.uwo.ca...
>> You started it there, so that's where it'll save things.  If you want
>> them saved somewhere else, change your shortcut to start it somewhere
>> else.

>You'll *have* to be a programmer to say it's logical to use the
>compiler's path as a default directory..;-)
>The shortcut tip is not bad at all, though...

I think you should blame this on Windows, not on Delphi.  Windows
always has a current directory, just like DOS, but the UI hides it so
well that applications are all inconsistent about this.  I don't think
Delphi's solution is great, but it's better than some I've seen.

I can't remember exactly what rules it used, but I remember thinking
when I switched from Desqview to Windows that Windows really screwed
up the current directory idea, and Desqview got it right.

Quote
>Oh, yes, I do. Normally, one project per directory. And I allways save
>the units before starting coding. What happens from time to time, is
>that when I want to change a unit's name, Delphi has a weird idea of
>where I would like to place this unit. Not the unit's current directory,
>not the project's directory, but the compiler's !

I think this happens if you start Delphi by clicking on a .PAS file,
instead of a .DPR.  So I don't do that :-).  I have .PAS files set to
open in my text editor (since the usual reason I want to open one is
to look at the source, not to edit, and my text editor is way quicker
to load than Delphi).  I open Delphi by clicking on a project file, or
the Delphi shortcut itself.

Duncan Murdoch

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


"Duncan Murdoch" <dmurd...@pair.com> skrev i melding
news:39c9616a.218265@news1.on.sympatico.ca...

Quote
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:42:37 +0200, "Bj?rge S?ther"
> <REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> wrote:

> >"Duncan Murdoch" <murd...@fisher.stats.uwo.ca> skrev i melding
> >news:39c8f0a5.14419283@newshost.uwo.ca...
> >Oh, yes, I do. Normally, one project per directory. And I allways
save
> >the units before starting coding. What happens from time to time, is
> >that when I want to change a unit's name, Delphi has a weird idea of
> >where I would like to place this unit. Not the unit's current
directory,
> >not the project's directory, but the compiler's !

> I think this happens if you start Delphi by clicking on a .PAS file,
> instead of a .DPR.  So I don't do that :-).

Ahh, yes, that's it ! Opening a Delphi file from Explorer, it is ! And,
afterwards, your current project open in Delphi won't compile ! OK, it's
not very long - lasting, but not very funny to newbies, I guess...

Quote
> I have .PAS files set to
> open in my text editor (since the usual reason I want to open one is
> to look at the source, not to edit, and my text editor is way quicker
> to load than Delphi).  I open Delphi by clicking on a project file, or
> the Delphi shortcut itself.

One improvement, though, is that now (D4 on, I guess) it opens in the
allready running Delphi instance...

--
Bjoerge Saether
Consultant / Developer
Asker, Norway
bsaether.removet...@online.no (remove the obvious)

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


In article <BZcy5.4937$mq2.81...@news1.online.no>, "Bj?rge S?ther"

Quote
<REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> writes:
> The problem I was describing, was
>the SaveAs- dialog popping up with a default directory different from
>the one I'd accessed during the session.

And what would your complaint be if you had modified the source file, wished to
Save As to another file, but not noticed that it was the SAME DIRECTORY AS THE
ORIGINAL, ignored the overwrite warning (because you done a variant SaveAs
before) and hence overwrote the original - that's the same sort of user error.

Although we've all made mistakes, we used to say in iron engineering design
"You can make a thing foolproof, but not {*word*76}y-fool proof" <gg>

In Northern Ireland (where they went in for such parctices) they used to say
"Vote early and vote often". I remember it as a variation for editing - "Save
early, and save often".

Of course if one is compiling and running now and again, the "Save on Run"
option helps.

Alan Lloyd
alangll...@aol.com

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


"AlanGLLoyd" <alangll...@aol.com> skrev i melding
news:20000921032658.28993.00000113@nso-fp.aol.com...
Quote
> In article <BZcy5.4937$mq2.81...@news1.online.no>, "Bj?rge S?ther"
> <REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> writes:

> > The problem I was describing, was
> >the SaveAs- dialog popping up with a default directory different from
> >the one I'd accessed during the session.

> And what would your complaint be if you had modified the source file,
wished to
> Save As to another file, but not noticed that it was the SAME
DIRECTORY AS THE
> ORIGINAL, ignored the overwrite warning (because you done a variant
SaveAs
> before) and hence overwrote the original - that's the same sort of

user error.

Then I wouldn't complain. I've done that, of course (two source files
are quite similar, at a glance, hehehe), but I would never blame anyone
for that. I'm talking about a somewhat unpredictable selection of
default save directory that I would call a bug. If intended, it's even
worse...

Quote
> Although we've all made mistakes, we used to say in iron engineering
design
> "You can make a thing foolproof, but not {*word*76}y-fool proof" <gg>

> In Northern Ireland (where they went in for such parctices) they used
to say
> "Vote early and vote often". I remember it as a variation for
editing - "Save
> early, and save often".

One should really not need to do so. thinking of how many Megabytes of
utter shit I produce every day, it's quite amazing how little of this
that actually contains valuable character combinations. Trigger one IDE
bug, and you're lost....

Quote
> Of course if one is compiling and running now and again, the "Save on
Run"
> option helps.

It's active, of course. And I've learned my lesson for now. But I still
think, as I have done for five years now, that the file- & directory
handling in Delphi is both primitive, buggy, and lacks basic features:

- What source units do actually build my project ?
- When compiling with the current path-entries, what .pas files and what
.dcu - files would be used ?
- I want to mark one of my .pas files with ("do allways compile")
- UMain.dcu unit of one project should *not* be possible to link in as
UMain.dcu of another project.
- I want to move my project to a disk, a cd-rom or whatever. Create a
file structure that contains all these files (that the compiler could
possibly know of...)
- Changing options that have implications for compiled code should force
recompilation of entire project
- Project setup should also be saved upon "Run" when "Save on Run" is
checked.

BTW, it's a bright, shiny day here in Norway...;-)
--
Bjoerge Saether
Consultant / Developer
Asker, Norway
bsaether.removet...@online.no (remove the obvious)

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


"Han er den vise og du den gale"
is written here somewhere in my theatre-textbook, and that's about all the
Norwegian I handle.

No, just kidding, but I know the feeling of getting "screwed" by the
software you're using ...

--

Alex Haerens
AHA-design
Belgium

alexhaerens _at_ hotmail _dot_ com

Bj?rge S?ther <REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> schreef in berichtnieuws
Jl1y5.4478$mq2.72...@news1.online.no...
| I hate it. No more, no less. What I've been doing for the last hour, is
| writing code in the wrong version of the unit.
| Why ? Oh, yes, the old "Default Directory Story":
|
| I'm working with a set of  *.pas files, all in one direcory. Then, I
| need to open one file and rename it. A previous version of a file that
| has been completely F...d up by an error in the Undo functionality.
|
| I was a but quick (having lost 3 hours of work), and didn't see that the
| f....ing Save As - dialog said 'C:\Program files\Borland\Delphi5\bin'
| !!!! What do you give me ? WHEN DOES ANYONE WANT TO SAVE *ANY* .PAS FILE
| IN THE \BIN directory ????
| And, besides, I haven't saved ANY, I repeat *ANY*, or opened ANY file
| from another location than the directory where my source files reside
| during this programming session.
|
| This very stupid, unintelligent behaviour from Delphi has been there
| since Delphi 1.
| This very stupid, unintelligent behaviour from me has been there since
| Delphi 1. I don't know how many times I've been saving .pas and .dpr
| files in the f... \bin directory.
|
| They can't get the simplest thing right. F... amateurs.
| --
| Bjoerge Saether
| Consultant / Developer
| Asker, Norway
| bsaether.removet...@online.no (remove the obvious)
|
|
|

Re:Delphi - I HATE IT - I HATE IT !!!!


On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:57:12 +0200, "Bj?rge S?ther"

Quote
<REMOVE_bsaether@THIS_online.no> wrote:
>It's active, of course. And I've learned my lesson for now. But I still
>think, as I have done for five years now, that the file- & directory
>handling in Delphi is both primitive, buggy, and lacks basic features:

I like all of your suggestions.  One workaround for one of them:

Quote
>- Changing options that have implications for compiled code should force
>recompilation of entire project

Workaround:  I rarely use the options in the IDE.  Make a file called
"Options.Inc", and include it by using {$i options.inc} as the first
line of every unit.

Here's a typical one of mine:

{.$define debug}

{$ifndef win32}
{$ifdef debug}
{$A+,B-,D+,E+,F-,G+,I+,L+,N-,O-,P-,Q+,R+,S+,T-,V+,X+,Y+}
{$M 16384,0,655360}
{$else}
{$A+,B-,D-,E+,F-,G+,I+,L-,N-,O-,P-,Q-,R-,S+,T-,V+,X+,Y-}
{$M 16384,0,655360}
{$endif}

{$else}
{$APPTYPE GUI}
{$ALIGN ON}
{$BOOLEVAL OFF}
{$HINTS ON}
{$IOCHECKS ON}
{$MINENUMSIZE 1}
{$SAFEDIVIDE ON}
{$WARNINGS ON}

{$ifdef debug}
{$define debug32}
{$ASSERTIONS ON}
{$DEBUGINFO ON}
{$LOCALSYMBOLS ON}
{$OPTIMIZATION OFF}
{$OVERFLOWCHECKS ON}
{$RANGECHECKS ON}
{$REFERENCEINFO ON}
{$STACKFRAMES ON}

{$else}

{$ASSERTIONS OFF}
{$DEBUGINFO OFF}
{$LOCALSYMBOLS OFF}
{$OPTIMIZATION ON}
{$OVERFLOWCHECKS OFF}
{$RANGECHECKS OFF}
{$REFERENCEINFO OFF}
{$STACKFRAMES OFF}
{$endif}

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