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Pascal done with?

I was wondering if i should keep on taking pascal after this year since
C++ is now the offical Computer Science language.  I also have heard
that many places dont like kpascal therefor ou wont get hired unless you
know C so if ive been told wrong please help me?  Its hard enough doing
Pascal why should i continue if its obsolete. thanx

 

Re:Pascal done with?


: C++ is now the offical Computer Science language.  I also have heard

<g> for now.

Learn a variety of languages and applications and techniques. Learn
structured and object technologies. There's more than one way to solve a
problem and the right way isn't always necessarily the way the herd goes.

C++ is a powerful tool. Learn it but carry with you some of the good
things from Pascal. You'll go through a number of languages in your
carreer (most likely). The language is not the important thing -- the
design and the algorithms are.

Patience. Patience.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
David J. Firth     !  Study the classics: history, science, philosophy,
Westerville, OH    !  math, religions, literature & art. Read. Write. Get
OS/2 Warp v3       !  outdoors. Turn off your PC and go learn something.

Re:Pascal done with?


Quote
Wisp wrote in message <696qkn$pk...@newsd-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...

I was wondering if i should keep on taking pascal after this year since
C++ is now the offical Computer Science language.  I also have heard
that many places dont like kpascal therefor ou wont get hired unless you
know C so if ive been told wrong please help me?  Its hard enough doing
Pascal why should i continue if its obsolete. thanx

No, you shouldn't waste your time learning pascal. Pascal is a GREAT
language
for begginers, easy to understand and you don't have to worry about small
things.
C is similar to pascal, but  you're more in control of everything. I coded
in TP 7.0
for 2 years, and thought that Pascal was the best language ever. (stupid me)
But then I started studying C.
And this is what I think now :  C > PASCAL. hehe
C is alot better than pascal....
Or why not start with Delphi?  It's a mixture of Pascal and Visualbasic.

Re:Pascal done with?


David is exactly true, patience guy!
And read his signature very well..
There is _no_ language that's obsolete. You can't
expect to be the perfect software engineer by just
owning two books about C++, its all about learning
and this will _never_ stop as long as you have fun
in coding. What makes a good coder I think is knowing
when to use which tool. If you're in a job like
this, it's all your decision _how_ to provide an
answer to a given task. Not one single user will
ever complain about the language you're using if the
prog you made does exactly what he wants. And this is
the thing you have to know in the first place: Can I
do this job using language xy? But to know that learn
as much of them as you can. Once you've understood
the basic techniques its just another language..
Yes, there are still people who judge a person by
the knowledge of one special language or even special
abilities within that language, but I think this will
come to an end. I see more and more companies looking
for people with 'fire', with eagerness for knowledge,
with 'lust' for new things. If you've got _that_ you'll
naturaly come to the point when the name of your tool
is of no interest at all..
-------------------------------------------
'base your joy not upon the deeds of others
for what is given can be taken away...'
-------------------------------------------
Member of the Coder's Guild:
http://www.paracatz.com/codersguild
Double K, Martin.K...@t-online.de

Re:Pascal done with?


Quote
Andrs Hansson wrote:
> C is similar to pascal, but  you're more in control of everything. I coded
> in TP 7.0
> for 2 years, and thought that Pascal was the best language ever. (stupid me)
> But then I started studying C.
> And this is what I think now :  C > PASCAL. hehe
> C is alot better than pascal....

WHY???

C is just standard language in software engineering. But it's not
better!
It doesn't have a VM, there's no *real* C-standard (ANSI, GNU, Borland,
MS, Symantec... - they do well, but they often do different things using
the same code).

But Pascal has a VM. And there's only one "standard" (Borland). You
should use BP 7.0 and you wouldn't have any :-) problems...

"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes it
 harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
                            -- Bjarne Stroustrup on C++

--
Marcel Winandy
EMail: Wina...@gmx.net
URL:   http://home.pages.de/~winandy/marcel.htm

Re:Pascal done with?


In <34B83967.6...@gmx.net>,

Quote
Marcel Winandy <Wina...@gmx.net> wrote:
> C is just standard language in software engineering. But it's not
> better!
> It doesn't have a VM,

What's VM? Virtual Machine? Virtual Memory? If you mean Pascal's heap, yes,
C has that, too (malloc() and free()).

Quote
> there's no *real* C-standard (ANSI, GNU, Borland,
> MS, Symantec... - they do well, but they often do different things using
> the same code).

> But Pascal has a VM. And there's only one "standard" (Borland).

Though I agree that C is not better than Pascal, and I like Pascal much more
than C, this statement is unfortunately not true: in fact, there are probably
much more Pascal "standards" than C (ISO 7185, ISO 10206, Borland, GNU, FPK,
Pascal++, and probably a lot more proprietary versions)...

Quote
> You should use BP 7.0 and you wouldn't have any :-) problems...

No, sorry. BP contains a few PC specific elements (e.g. Port[]), and thus is
not even a completely portable language definition. Besides, the only compiler
that implements this "standard" has been abandoned by its makers.

So if you're never looking out of the Dos window (pun intended), and don't
care for code optimization or improvements of the language, you're statment
may be true, otherwise it's not.

Of course, there are other advantages of Pascal over C, but these has been
discussed so often that I won't even start here.

Quote
> "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes it
>  harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
>                             -- Bjarne Stroustrup on C++

... and in Pascal, you have to type cast your foot into a target before you
can shoot it... ;-)

--
Frank Heckenbach, Erlangen, Germany
fjf@[NOSPAM.REMOVE.THIS]gmx.de
Internet links:  http://home.pages.de/~fjf/links.htm
Pascal programs: http://home.pages.de/~fjf/programs.htm

Re:Pascal done with?


"Pascal is a GREAT language for begginers, easy to understand and
you don't have to worry about small things.  C is similar to
pascal, but  you're more in control of everything."

I am not sure what you can do in C that can't be done in any
modern Pascal- could you give us an example?  It's been my
observation that Pascal implementations provide more or less the
same ability to access lower level stuff without the need for
doing so.  If I don't want to play with pointers all day and just
want to get my program working, why should I use C?

--
Will Dwinnell
Commercial Intelligence

Re:Pascal done with?


Quote
Frank Heckenbach wrote:

> In <34B83967.6...@gmx.net>,
> Marcel Winandy <Wina...@gmx.net> wrote:

> > C is just standard language in software engineering. But it's not
> > better!
> > It doesn't have a VM,

> What's VM? Virtual Machine? Virtual Memory? If you mean Pascal's heap, yes,

I meant Virtual Machine.

Quote
> > there's no *real* C-standard (ANSI, GNU, Borland,
> > MS, Symantec... - they do well, but they often do different things using
> > the same code).

> > But Pascal has a VM. And there's only one "standard" (Borland).

> Though I agree that C is not better than Pascal, and I like Pascal much more
> than C, this statement is unfortunately not true: in fact, there are probably
> much more Pascal "standards" than C (ISO 7185, ISO 10206, Borland, GNU, FPK,
> Pascal++, and probably a lot more proprietary versions)...

I meant: Borland's Pascal is the most frequently used Pascal compiler.

Quote
> > You should use BP 7.0 and you wouldn't have any :-) problems...

> No, sorry. BP contains a few PC specific elements (e.g. Port[]), and thus is
> not even a completely portable language definition. Besides, the only compiler
> that implements this "standard" has been abandoned by its makers.

If you want to make portable code, you'll have to use C/C++, because
it's nearly
the only language you'll get on every hardware and operating system (if
necessary
there would be C for programming your SCSI toilet...)
But: because most Pascal programmers use Borland's Pascal, we talk about
PCs.
And most of them use DOS, Windows, Win95, WinNT or OS/2. There you have
Borland.
And if you use Linux/UNIX, you'll better use C/C++, because UNIX and
C/C++ are nearly
two words for the same thing :-) - I mean, if you do some system
programming...

Quote
> So if you're never looking out of the Dos window (pun intended), and don't
> care for code optimization or improvements of the language, you're statment
> may be true, otherwise it's not.

About code optimization: If you want to have OPTIMIZED code, you'll have
to code
in Assembler. There you'll know what you're doing (if you KNOW
Assembler...)
About improvements: Delphi ?!? (o.k. - that's "Visual Basic for Pascal"
:-) - but
there are some improvements: e.g. CLASS - the correct word for BP7's
OBJECT) ;-)

--
Marcel Winandy
EMail: Wina...@gmx.net
URL:   http://home.pages.de/~winandy/marcel.htm

Re:Pascal done with?


Quote
Marcel Winandy <Wina...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Frank Heckenbach wrote:

> > In <34B83967.6...@gmx.net>,
> > Marcel Winandy <Wina...@gmx.net> wrote:

> > > C is just standard language in software engineering. But it's not
> > > better!
> > > It doesn't have a VM,

> > What's VM? Virtual Machine? Virtual Memory? If you mean Pascal's heap, yes,

> I meant Virtual Machine.

Well, Pascal has no special support for Virtual Machines, either. (At least
not Turbo Pascal or any Pascal dialect or compiler that I know of.) And why
should it? VMs are not a matter of programming languages, but of OSs.

Quote
> > No, sorry. BP contains a few PC specific elements (e.g. Port[]), and thus is
> > not even a completely portable language definition. Besides, the only compiler
> > that implements this "standard" has been abandoned by its makers.

> If you want to make portable code, you'll have to use C/C++, because
> it's nearly
> the only language you'll get on every hardware and operating system (if
> necessary
> there would be C for programming your SCSI toilet...)

Well, GNU Pascal is just as portable as GNU C (of course) which includes
almost all OSs. I'm not sure if it's been ported to your SCSI toilet yet,
but if not, this will be done ASAP... :-)

Quote
> But: because most Pascal programmers use Borland's Pascal, we talk about
> PCs.

Actually, when talking about applications, I can't really understand the
idea to code for one platform only when there are ways to have your
program run on almost any system. (Except, of course, for M$ programmers
who "have" to make sure their slaves^H^H^H^H^H^Hcustomers won't ever use
anything else but Windoze...)

Quote
> And most of them use DOS, Windows, Win95, WinNT or OS/2. There you have
> Borland.

OS/2??? Perhaps in a Dos box. Yeah, and under Linux in DosEmu, too.
But that's not really using the power of an OS...

Quote
> And if you use Linux/UNIX, you'll better use C/C++, because UNIX and
> C/C++ are nearly
> two words for the same thing :-) - I mean, if you do some system
> programming...

No thanks! I can do low level stuff in Pascal just as well as in C,
and I much prefer Pascal. (And, BTW, I am using Linux.)

Quote
> About code optimization: If you want to have OPTIMIZED code, you'll have
> to code
> in Assembler. There you'll know what you're doing (if you KNOW
> Assembler...)

I do, but only for a few systems. Assembler is good if you really need
maximum speed and are really *sure* you never want to run your program
on a different system. Well, for most of my programs, I wouldn't be that
sure...

Quote
> About improvements: Delphi ?!? (o.k. - that's "Visual Basic for Pascal"
> :-) - but
> there are some improvements: e.g. CLASS - the correct word for BP7's
> OBJECT) ;-)

I know, but Delphi is even more limited in supported platforms. In
particular, it only runs on systems I'll never want to use. But other
Pascal compilers make improvements, too.

--
Frank Heckenbach, Erlangen, Germany
fjf@[NOSPAM.REMOVE.THIS]gmx.de
Internet links:  http://home.pages.de/~fjf/links.htm
Pascal programs: http://home.pages.de/~fjf/programs.htm

Re:Pascal done with?


Quote
Wisp wrote:

> I was wondering if i should keep on taking pascal after this year since
> C++ is now the offical Computer Science language.  I also have heard
> that many places dont like kpascal therefor ou wont get hired unless you
> know C so if ive been told wrong please help me?  Its hard enough doing
> Pascal why should i continue if its obsolete. thanx

//,
//, Hi
//,
//, One more discussion e-mail about
//, PASCAL and the rest of programming
//, languages.....
//,
//, 1) Pascal is not the only one of good what exist
//, 2) A good programmer can make good things with
//,    many different IDE's, a bad.........
//, 3) C++ is very good too and you have more
//,    stuff to make your own "personnel" code.
//, 4) And don't forget that "Windows" becames
//,    bigger and bigger and programs run under
//,    it be wanted.....
//,    So Visual C(++), Visual Basic, Delphi,
//,    Java.....
//,    are the way you had to choose if you want
//,    to write programs for earn money with it.
//,
//, Finally it's your turn what you want to
//, programming with....
//,
//, M.Z.
//,

Re:Pascal done with?


Quote
M.Z. wrote:

[...]

Quote
> //,
> //, Hi
> //,
> //, One more discussion e-mail about
> //, PASCAL and the rest of programming
> //, languages.....

[...]

Quote
> //, M.Z.
> //,

M.Z., could you do us all a favor and skip the non-standard line headers
you use?

"//," is distracting and contributes little to the desire to read your
post.

Best Regards,

Mike
CEO, Analog & Digital Design
Automated Production Test
  http://www.csolve.net/~add/home.htm

Hosting Jonathan Ramsey's Pascal TCP/IP for DOS:
  http://www.csolve.net/~add/zips/tcp.htm

Re:Pascal done with?


Curious, why does everybody here insist that people rush out and buy this
abandoned product?  Stealing it, using it for a couple of months in school, and
forgetting about sounds a heck of alot better than supporting a product the
manufacturer doesn't even support...

\ /
O O
 ^
 =

Quote
>Besides, the only compiler that implements this "standard" has been abandoned
>by its makers.
>--
>Frank Heckenbach, Erlangen, Germany
>fjf@[NOSPAM.REMOVE.THIS]gmx.de
>Internet links:  http://home.pages.de/~fjf/links.htm
>Pascal programs: http://home.pages.de/~fjf/programs.htm

Re:Pascal done with?


Quote
Mike wrote:

> M.Z. wrote:

> [...]

> > //,
> > //, Hi
> > //,
> > //, One more discussion e-mail about
> > //, PASCAL and the rest of programming
> > //, languages.....

> [...]

> > //, M.Z.
> > //,

> M.Z., could you do us all a favor and skip the non-standard line headers
> you use?

> "//," is distracting and contributes little to the desire to read your
> post.

> Best Regards,

> Mike
> CEO, Analog & Digital Design
> Automated Production Test
>   http://www.csolve.net/~add/home.htm

> Hosting Jonathan Ramsey's Pascal TCP/IP for DOS:
>   http://www.csolve.net/~add/zips/tcp.htm//,

//, Hi Mike
//,
//, After all the years I marked the lines in my e-mails
//, with these "//," and nobody has any trouble with it.
//, It's my personnel note and mean an "M".
//,
//, So I can not understand what's so difficult
//, to read a line with an marker on the begin.
//,
//, Sorry but this wish I can not agree.
//,
//, M.Z.
//,

Re:Pascal done with?


   _You_ may have been doing it "for years", but I too find it extremely
annoying.  It comes across as arrogant and intrusive.  If you have
anything worth contributing to a thread, I'm not likely to see it,
because your posts are very difficult to read.

Quote
> > M.Z., could you do us all a favor and skip the non-standard line headers
> > you use?
> > "//," is distracting and contributes little to the desire to read your
> > post.
> //, After all the years I marked the lines in my e-mails
> //, with these "//," and nobody has any trouble with it.
> //, It's my personnel note and mean an "M".
> //, So I can not understand what's so difficult
> //, to read a line with an marker on the begin.
> //, Sorry but this wish I can not agree.

Re:Pascal done with?


Quote
M.Z. wrote:

[...]

Quote
> //, After all the years I marked the lines in my e-mails
> //, with these "//," and nobody has any trouble with it.
> //, It's my personnel note and mean an "M".
> //,
> //, So I can not understand what's so difficult
> //, to read a line with an marker on the begin.
> //,
> //, Sorry but this wish I can not agree.
> //,
> //, M.Z.
> //,

Well, M.Z., two people have taken the trouble to tell you it is not a
good idea.

So, KILLFILE ON!

Best Regards,

Mike
CEO, Analog & Digital Design
Automated Production Test
  http://www.csolve.net/~add/home.htm

Hosting Jonathan Ramsey's Pascal TCP/IP for DOS:
  http://www.csolve.net/~add/zips/tcp.htm

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