Board index » delphi » Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Re: A great plan for 2004 !


2003-12-12 02:04:05 AM
delphi59
Jim Cooper writes:
Quote

>CBX was brought into the conversation by Jim Cooper.

Alan Garny mentioned it as being in the same group as C#B and D8. I
should have been cleaner with my replies, sorry.
IDE-wise, it isn't. C#B and Delphi 8 are for .NET and run on Win32, CBX runs on
a range of platforms. The IDE is based on Primetime, just like the
JBuilder IDE.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"I have yet to meet a C compiler that is more friendly and easier to
use than eating soup with a knife." -- unknown
 
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
Linux is about to get 4 billion users on the desktop
I doubt there are 4 billion desktops around in the world. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants,
and the other is getting it."
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Maybe you need a few more members dedicated to just this. If Borland
has limited resources, why not tap the user community?
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) writes:
Quote
Didier Largange writes:


>I would also try to set up something that would allow us users to donate
>bug fix code. There are so many of us that have a huge passion for the
>product line, that we are more then happy to help with the product for
>free. This is something that team B could do.


I think we are busy enough.
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork
www.bss-software.com
sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Olivier Beltrami writes:
Quote
>"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
>-- Thomas Watson (1874-1956), Chairman of IBM, 1943

Same Chairman was at the helm while IBM designed and sold a card system
to Nazi Germany so that it could better inventory the holocaust ? If
so, I hope he rots in hell.
I don't know. If so, I agree.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Well done is better than well said." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Quote
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
-- Thomas Watson (1874-1956), Chairman of IBM, 1943
Same Chairman was at the helm while IBM designed and sold a card system to
Nazi Germany so that it could better inventory the holocaust ? If so, I hope
he rots in hell.
Olivier
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Quote
IDE-wise, it isn't.
I know, that is why I brought it up :-)
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
____________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Tabdee Ltd www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi with your Palm
____________________________________________
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

BINGO!
info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/Godwin_s_Law.html
Gyula
"Olivier Beltrami" <obeltrami at wanadoo dot fr>wrote
Quote

Same Chairman was at the helm while IBM designed and sold a card system to
Nazi Germany ...
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

On 12-Dec-03, Karakas, Gyula [Vamsoft] said:
Quote
BINGO!

info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/Godwin_s_Law.html
Which merely allows you to deflect, rather than to make meaningful
comments.
--
Bill
--------
"Just because an establishment deals with the public doesn't make it
public property." -- Walter Williams
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
Which is why I am so confused on why Borland did what they did with Kylix?

Mistakes

#1 - Linux is not on the desktop, yet. Kylix 1 was only for desktop
development.
I believe Borland thought they could seed the Linux desktop movement.
If they had been able to get enough early interest many apps would have
been written in the Delphi language on Linux and this would have
increased interest in Linux. The only mistakes they have made in this
area is that they have not marketed it enough and they have not
maintained it well enough. I believe that Kylix interest (for desktop
development) would have start picking up now. Ironically, Kylix won't
be updated in 2004. Personally, I am now seriously considering writing
my first "serious" app for Linux. I probably will be using Lazarus
because of the lack of Kylix updates. If Borland had maintained Kylix I
would be using Kylix. I am in two minds about this though- I may still
try it with Kylix. I just wish Borland would at least say that they are
not totally abadoning Kylix. Right now it is up in the air.
Mandrake 9.2 is an excellent desktop O/S. The only thing keeping me on
Windows right now is that I have customers using my Windows apps so I
need to use Delphi. If it weren't for that I would be using Linux as my
only O/S. All the other primary apps that I use can run on Linux and
Windows.
Quote
#2 - Most C++ programmers already have a tool they are using and it
is free or next to it. They aren't willing to pay for an expensive/
buggy development environment.
I don't think it has anything to with the cost. It is more about the
future. Most developers are concerned about the future of a commercial
company. They aren't concerned if they have the source code in their
hands for the development tool they're using. that is what they have
with GCC and KDevelop, right?
Quote
#3 - Borland didn't have a really good bundle price for Delphi and
Kylix.
Well... I believe that was the problem initially. Although you're
probably right on the "new developer" pricing. I believe that the
Delphi package should always include all platforms that are supported.
They should never be separated out into different SKUs. Many developers
are interested in cross-platform development today.
Quote
Where is Linux today:

Web Servers and Database Servers.
True.
Quote
I [k]now people who are Pascal
programmers that will spend money to make their Web programming
easier. That is where the emphasis should have been put on
Kylix. Just about everything else could have been a little
buggy, and people would have still bought it.
I agree. I really hope Borland brings out a .NET compiler module for
Linux so that ASP.NET apps can be written to run on Mono. It would be
nice to see Mono able to access the "*.pas" files and recompile
automatically- like it does with C# at the moment.
Quote
In about 2 years Linux will start getting serious traction on
the desktop (IMO).
I think you may be right. "serious" traction may only be 10% of the
desktop market though.
Quote
This will happen just before Longhorn
starts to ship as companies start turning away from MS is
droves, especially corporations.
I do think that companies will move first. Consumers will follow.
Companies will be the first to realize the reduction in licensing fees
etc. that will affect their bottom line.
Cheers,
Kevin.
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Kevin writes:
Quote
Thomas Miller writes:

>Which is why I am so confused on why Borland did what they did with
>Kylix?
>
>Mistakes
>
>#1 - Linux is not on the desktop, yet. Kylix 1 was only for desktop
>development.


I believe Borland thought they could seed the Linux desktop movement. If
they had been able to get enough early interest many apps would have
been written in the Delphi language on Linux and this would have
increased interest in Linux. The only mistakes they have made in this
area is that they have not marketed it enough and they have not
maintained it well enough. I believe that Kylix interest (for desktop
development) would have start picking up now. Ironically, Kylix won't
be updated in 2004. Personally, I am now seriously considering writing
my first "serious" app for Linux. I probably will be using Lazarus
because of the lack of Kylix updates. If Borland had maintained Kylix I
would be using Kylix. I am in two minds about this though- I may still
try it with Kylix. I just wish Borland would at least say that they are
not totally abadoning Kylix. Right now it is up in the air.

Mandrake 9.2 is an excellent desktop O/S. The only thing keeping me on
Windows right now is that I have customers using my Windows apps so I
need to use Delphi. If it weren't for that I would be using Linux as my
only O/S. All the other primary apps that I use can run on Linux and
Windows.

>#2 - Most C++ programmers already have a tool they are using and it
>is free or next to it. They aren't willing to pay for an expensive/
>buggy development environment.


I don't think it has anything to with the cost. It is more about the
future. Most developers are concerned about the future of a commercial
company. They aren't concerned if they have the source code in their
hands for the development tool they're using. that is what they have
with GCC and KDevelop, right?
My limited experience with died in the wool C++ programmers is that IDE
are for sissies. That with the fact the tool was $1,500. And yes, they
can fix GCC and KDevleop and all the other C++ editors on sourceforge
Quote

>#3 - Borland didn't have a really good bundle price for Delphi and
>Kylix.


Well... I believe that was the problem initially. Although you're
probably right on the "new developer" pricing. I believe that the
Delphi package should always include all platforms that are supported.
They should never be separated out into different SKUs. Many developers
are interested in cross-platform development today.

>Where is Linux today:
>
>Web Servers and Database Servers.


True.

>I [k]now people who are Pascal
>programmers that will spend money to make their Web programming
>easier. That is where the emphasis should have been put on
>Kylix. Just about everything else could have been a little
>buggy, and people would have still bought it.


I agree. I really hope Borland brings out a .NET compiler module for
Linux so that ASP.NET apps can be written to run on Mono. It would be
nice to see Mono able to access the "*.pas" files and recompile
automatically- like it does with C# at the moment.

>In about 2 years Linux will start getting serious traction on
>the desktop (IMO).


I think you may be right. "serious" traction may only be 10% of the
desktop market though.

I am thinking more in the 15% - 20% range by 2010. With the market
as a whole growing tremendously in third world countries and Asia.
Quote
>This will happen just before Longhorn
>starts to ship as companies start turning away from MS is
>droves, especially corporations.


I do think that companies will move first. Consumers will follow.
Companies will be the first to realize the reduction in licensing fees
etc. that will affect their bottom line.

Cheers,
Kevin.
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork
www.bss-software.com
sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
 

Re: A great plan for 2004 !

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
>>In about 2 years Linux will start getting serious traction on
>>the desktop (IMO).
>
>I think you may be right. "serious" traction may only be 10% of the
>desktop market though.

I am thinking more in the 15% - 20% range by 2010. With the market
as a whole growing tremendously in third world countries and Asia.
True. Linux is doing very well in Asia. And third world countries are
putting in Linux everywhere- in the schools etc.