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Re: Win32 or .NET poll


2004-09-21 03:29:43 AM
delphi31
In direct response to my question. So I am e{*word*277}d about this
change. Now if we can get management to think other people
besides just current Delphi users are interested in Object
Pascal, there might be a real future for Delphi in Corp
and the little shops. Heck, I might even start recommending
it again.
Will DeWitt Jr. writes:
Quote
Thomas Miller writes:


>Which ever one you want to use, just hope they start fixing the
>bugs faster and management actually starts thinking there is a
>future beyond mere upgrades for Delphi ;-)


Danny blogged or posted (not sure which, for all I know he did it in
this thread) about how they've allocated more time for fixing bugs in
the product after it ships. I think they've learned from the D7
service pack fiasco, now to see if they can actually execute on their
new knowledge.

Will

--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork
www.bss-software.com
sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
 
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

As Jeff Richter said: DLL Hell became Versioning Hell :-(
Wayne Niddery [TeamB] writes:
Quote
xherc writes:
>
>Yeah. I am really interested if
>someone from ".NET is great"
>camp can comment on NET SP/D8
>situation, since "no more DLL hell"
>was one of strongest "arguments"
>in so many threads, in time when there
>was nothing to back it up but MS
>prommises.

homepages.borland.com/dthorpe/blog/delphi/2004_09_01_archive.ph
p#109563479886920612
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Quote
When will .Net be the programming framework of choice?
It is right now for web-based stuff. it is so much easier to use ASP.NET
than the old ASP stuff. Winforms development is lagging - although that
is in fact what I am doing at the moment, as are a goodly number of
people I know.
User groups (especially Delphi user groups) are not likely to be the
best indicator of the uptake of .NET (I speak from experience as the
technical overlord of a group in the UK).
Quote
Obviously Borland's all out change to .Net only in 2003 - 2004
Eh? There is a ton of new Win32 stuff in Diamondback. I only showed
Win32 features in my BorCon talks. Almost all the new IDE features not
only support both Delphi for .NET **and** Delphi Win32, but also C#.
Obviously some new technologies are .NET only, but that is only sensible,
and in many cases is bringing the .NET implementation up to the standard
of Win32 (dbGo etc).
Quote
Borland has geared there .Net support for 2004,
leaving us loyal, paying Win API customers out in the cold.
That's not true. Diamondback is a significant release for Win32 as well.
However, Borland cannot ignore .NET. If they do they'll never catch up.
Quote
in the other, they are telling us it has been dead since D5 :-( .
You're a glass half empty sort of guy, aren't you? :-) Delphi 6 was the
biggest release for new features up to that point.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_______________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.co.uk
_______________________________________________
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Will DeWitt Jr. writes:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] writes:

>It would be a bit weird if MS did not embrace their own Win64. <g>

Is there some other competition for Borland that I am missing? I mean,
FreePascal is embracing Win64 as well it seems, or does that not
count? How many other companies need to embrace Win64 before Borland
scratches their collective heads and admits this may be a problem for
them going forward if they don't get with the program?
I think it doesn't really matter what the competition does, in this
regard. If Borland sees no ROI on a Win64 product, they will not do it.
Quote
<shrug>And Delphi is the only tool in Borlands box, what's your
point?
Huh? What about all these other tools they produce?
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it."
-- Groucho Marx
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Jim Cooper writes:
Quote
>When will .Net be the programming framework of choice?


It is right now for web-based stuff. it is so much easier to use ASP.NET
than the old ASP stuff. Winforms development is lagging - although that
is in fact what I am doing at the moment, as are a goodly number of
people I know.
I believe PHP is #1, but I don't do a lot of web programming.
Quote

User groups (especially Delphi user groups) are not likely to be the
best indicator of the uptake of .NET (I speak from experience as the
technical overlord of a group in the UK).

Thanks for the insult. I guess I am just an idiot and so are the
diverse people that belong to our users group. I will let them know.
Quote

>Obviously Borland's all out change to .Net only in 2003 - 2004


Eh? There is a ton of new Win32 stuff in Diamondback. I only showed
Win32 features in my BorCon talks. Almost all the new IDE features not
only support both Delphi for .NET **and** Delphi Win32, but also C#.

Obviously some new technologies are .NET only, but that is only sensible,
and in many cases is bringing the .NET implementation up to the standard
of Win32 (dbGo etc).

But 2003 saw Delphi 7 .net updates and D8. Not a lot of stuff in those two
releases. Diamond back is changing that. You need to read some
of my other posts and you would know that is what I meant.
Quote

>Borland has geared there .Net support for 2004,
>leaving us loyal, paying Win API customers out in the cold.


That's not true. Diamondback is a significant release for Win32 as well.
However, Borland cannot ignore .NET. If they do they'll never catch up.

Again you not reading close enough. Borland geared heavy support for
.Net in there products by 2004, thinking that everyone was going to
drop win32 for .Net. What they could have done, is made Delphi 8 mainly
a win32 product and added heavy dot net support in Diamond back.
This would have made more sense for most Delphi users.
Quote
>in the other, they are telling us it has been dead since D5 :-( .


You're a glass half empty sort of guy, aren't you? :-) Delphi 6 was the
biggest release for new features up to that point.
And Borland's new feature are often buggy and incomplete and usually
are rock solid in the next release. That didn't happen for the first
time since the product came out. Delphi 7 still had major holes in the
technologies introduced in D6. dbExpress anyone. Normally, going
by past experience with previous technology releases, dbExpress
would have been rock solid for D7.
Did you just want to argue? I have been trying to make the point,
that maybe Diamondback will get us Win32 people back where we want
to be with Delphi. That is about as up beat as I can get until I
have the product in my hands.
Quote

Cheers,
Jim Cooper

_______________________________________________

Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.co.uk
_______________________________________________
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork
www.bss-software.com
sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Thomas Edison writes:
Quote
I've been discussing this issue on the MS newsgroups and the people
have been saying that they haven't noticed this at all. Glad to see
that it's
That re-affirms my theory that Borland has spoilt us for all these
years. As a result we have higher standards than other Win32
developers. :-)
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com
Vote 1 cc.borland.com/codecentral/ccweb.exe/listing :-)
Now supports Google Groups searching with Dyna-extend(tm) technology!
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
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"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer
Simpson
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Eric Grange writes:
Quote
Hint: it is not as a coffe machine ;)
Well, I am stumped then <g>
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com
Vote 1 cc.borland.com/codecentral/ccweb.exe/listing :-)
Now supports Google Groups searching with Dyna-extend(tm) technology!
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
qc.borland.com
"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, its that girls
should stick to girl's sports, such as hot oil wrestling foxy boxy and
such and such" - Homer Simpson
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Eric Grange writes:
Quote
Hint: it is not as a coffe machine ;)
But hopefully someone is writing that plugin though!
mmm coffee... chocolate coated coffee beans...
<g>
--
JED, QC - Win32 Client for Quality Central:
www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/
Alpha 3.0 - Released August 23, 2004
JED, QC Blog: jedqc.blogspot.com/
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Quote
But hopefully someone is writing that plugin though!
Well, I once saw the portal's notification system being used
to broadcast the tea was ready... ;)
Eric
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Will DeWitt Jr. writes:
Quote
Funny, I would call the full embrace of Win64 by Microsoft the ultimate
Win32 upgrade.
That .NET will run on Win64 makes it even more so <g>
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
>User groups (especially Delphi user groups) are not likely to be the
>best indicator of the uptake of .NET (I speak from experience as the
>technical overlord of a group in the UK).

Thanks for the insult. I guess I am just an idiot and so are the
diverse people that belong to our users group.
FWIW, I don't see anything insulting in what he said. Even if I were a
member of a user group (which I am not at present), I would still agree with
Jim. There would be far better indicators, such as the (probably)
millions of .NET programmers who aren't (or aren't necessarily) members
of user groups.
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

"Tim Anderson" writes
Quote
"Eric Grange" writes
>
>1) GC has to become optional (just now, I received a call from
>a customer whose server was brought down by the GC of another
>application on the same server, who hogged everything to clean
>up its one GB+ GC, started around 13:30, it is almost 15:00 and
>there are still 700 MB+ to be processed, and server is still
>swapping like mad, thanks ASP.Net and devs that trusted the GC)

GC won't become optional; however developers need to learn that GC solves
some problems but introduces others.

Solved: Problems you coud solve yourself. (free damn memory in time)
Introduced: Other people problems (like in Eric's example)
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Quote

Name one. Just curious.

I'll name two. Web development and hand held device development is
significantly easier with .NET. These are the two areas I have focused on
for the last couple of years.
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Hrvoje Brozovic writes:
Quote
Solved: Problems you coud solve yourself. (free damn memory in time)
Introduced: Other people problems (like in Eric's example)
It would be interesting to see over the next couple of years if buggy
ASP.NET applications generally introduce fewer or less severe problems
than buggy native ISAPI dlls generally do. I know of a number of web
providers who only allow native ISAPI dlls to run on dedicated servers,
while they (currently) allow ASP.NET applications to run on shared servers.
--
Henrick Hellström
www.streamsec.com
 

Re: Win32 or .NET poll

Kristofer Skaug writes:
Quote
>"Switch now or you will be behind the power curve" {*word*99} is getting
>old.

As far as .NET is concerned - almost 5 years old, in fact. Many of us
chose to ignore it, and boy are we feeling the bite!!
Not from our customers, but from Borland, who are so busy chasing MS
that they almost forgot to ask if anybody else were planning to come
along.
<g>You are not alone.
--
Phil