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Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?


2005-02-19 04:10:21 AM
delphi194
"Michael Anonymous" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
That is, giving away all applications and source code for free
and asking for donations.
Honestly, I think that kind of behavior has a negative impact
on the "the software market".
Yes, I think it does. For example you'd probably see a lot more and a lot
better newsreaders if there was obvious profit to be had instead of myriad
free alternatives.
This weekend I am going to be watching several DVD's I recently bought. Could
work on a newsreader instead, a newsreader that is 90% done and has several
features a lot of people have told me they'd like to see in a newsreader.
But the possibility of making any money on such a thing is lowered by the a
availability of free altermatives that get an unfair break because they are
"free". I enjoy working on my newsreader, but I also enjoy a lot of other
things, and without any clear profit motive there is no real reason for me
to finish it. So I allocate my free time among several different hobbies of
mine, such as horror movies, books on religious history, fiddling around on
newsgroups and in the small amount of time that remains, working on the
newsreader. Thus it never gets done.
If I thought I could make good money with it, I would try to finish it. But
what's the point right now?
 
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

John Jacobson writes:
Quote
If I thought I could make good money with it, I would try to finish it.
But what's the point right now?
What was the point when you started it?
--
Leonel
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

"Leonel" <togniolli.@.techtips.com.br>writes
Quote
What was the point when you started it?
The initial idea grew out of a joke about {*word*40} I made in 1997. Kept
redesigning major portions of it since it was started around 1999 or so,
decided it ought to be a newsreader around 2000 or so. Lost all the code
sometime around 2001. Rewrote most of what was lost, then redesigned it a
few times more. Since the last betas two years ago or so it has been
redesigned again. Never gets past the 90% mark. I pretty much gave up on the
project last year, or the year before, can not remember, but I still work on
it for my own fun and enjoyment a little every weekend.
The project seems to progress the most when I am the least satisfied with my
career. So it has stagnated these last few years.
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

<snip>
I am not a fan of "free" work either but without
code sharing the whole software industry
could never be what it is now. People
can not work in the vacuum.
The most you'd have is some glass buildings
stuffed with IBM mainframes and that'd be it.
I kinda disagree with GPL but MPL sounds fine
to me. Does not put much restrictions.
As for yourself consider the fact that
other people still manage to create useful
products and still charge good money for it
and make a decent living. I do not think
I should point you to the examples;)
You have just chosen a horizontal market
with cutthroat competition. Even if there
was no "free" competition the size of the
market itself would encourage very few
major players at the end. You could've
found something better instead of complaining
about free alternatives.
Kostya
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

Quote
But everyone knows that chicks dig multi-language IDEs.

Really? All three of them? :)
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

Liz writes:
Quote
So you'd support them giving it to me? my freeware app is no where in
contest with anyone commercially as well, Ive yet to see a company
making an app directly for telnet based muck type games.
No, I wouldn't support them giving it to you for free either.
The reason is simply a matter of fairness:
it's not fair to freely give to one person instead of another.
( I didn't get a free copy! )
Furthermore, most commercial software competitors ( e.g. me ),
most likely, would not like the idea of Borland giving free copies to their
"Free Software" competitors (when they didn't get a free copy as well. ).
The bottom line is the non-free software developers, the commercial ones,
wouldn't think it is fair.
Some would also see it as Borland, indirectly,
supporting the "Free Software Movement" over commercial software.
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

John Jacobson writes:
Quote
But the possibility of making any money on such a thing is lowered by the a
availability of free altermatives that get an unfair break because they are
"free". I enjoy working on my newsreader, but I also enjoy a lot of other
things, and without any clear profit motive there is no real reason for me
to finish it.
I agree with this point.
That's why I wanted to point out that I don't think it is great idea that
the free-software-developer gets free products from Borland while
commercial developers have to pay.
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

Kostya writes:
Quote
<snip>

I am not a fan of "free" work either but without
code sharing the whole software industry
could never be what it is now.
I don't agree with this assertion because
I can get code though books and other material that isn't free.
Also, I bought Delphi and it had some "code sharing."
<snip>
Quote
You could've
found something better instead of complaining
about free alternatives.

I was complaining about why Borland is supporting this kind of behavior.
It just doesn't make sense to me because
it's hurting some of Borland's commercial customers.
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

Michael Anonymous writes:
Quote
...... while commercial developers have to pay.
they can get without to pay money too.
www.borland.com/partners/become/technology_partners.html
Martin
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

Michael Anonymous writes:
Quote
Liz writes:
>So you'd support them giving it to me? my freeware app is no where
>in contest with anyone commercially as well, Ive yet to see a
>company making an app directly for telnet based muck type games.

No, I wouldn't support them giving it to you for free either.
Then sadly it sounds more like sour grapes coz it seems Colin got one
and you didnt.
I cant afford 2005 yet, when I can I will. I think its nice that Colin
got recognised for his efforts by borland. Team B get copies too, they
seem to hand out a few copies to people, doesnt phase me in the
slightest. Sure, if I could get one Id love one, but I dont think its
wrong that some people have them and others dont. Those of us who dont
obviously havent done that special thing to get one.
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

"Kostya" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
I am not a fan of "free" work either but without
code sharing the whole software industry
could never be what it is now. People
can not work in the vacuum.
I'm not talking about code reuse and component libraries like JVCL and Indy.
I'm talking about free end-user products, like Xananews, Linux, etc.
Quote
As for yourself consider the fact that
other people still manage to create useful
products and still charge good money for it
and make a decent living. I do not think
I should point you to the examples;)
I know that. I was using my newsreader merely as an example where free
alternatives are reducing the availability of alternatives, this reducing
the choices available to consumers rather than increasing them. We both know
about my newsreader because I talk about it, but I bet there are thousands
of other totally unknown newsreaders that never get finished because the
author feels no incentive to finish it, or even more likely there are tens
of thousands of far better newsreaders that never even get started because
of the free newsreaders out there.
By the way, when I started the newsreader there were not so many free
newsreaders available as there are now. It takes a lot of time to write a
piece of software when the only time you have to devote to it is a few hours
every weekend.
Quote

You have just chosen a horizontal market
with cutthroat competition.
"Cutthroat competition"? Are we talking about the same market?
Quote
Even if there
was no "free" competition the size of the
market itself would encourage very few
major players at the end.
The *size* of the market is not a problem. There are tens of millions (or at
least hundreds of thousands) of people using newsreaders.
Quote
You could've
found something better instead of complaining
about free alternatives.
Like what?
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

"Liz" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
I think its nice that Colin
got recognised for his efforts by borland.
Which of Colin's efforts were the ones that got the recognition? I think
this might be germane to the current discussion, since the topic is free
software like Xananews, and Colin has written some free components and other
things as well.
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

Quote
I pretty much gave up on the
project last year, or the year before, can not remember, but I still work on
it for my own fun and enjoyment a little every weekend.
So, are you saying JSN just ain't ever going to be? I could have
sworn I saw a post not that long ago that it was finally going to see
the light of day. I guess I could misremember.
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

John Jacobson writes:
Quote
this might be germane to the current discussion, ....
yup.
**********************************************************************
Partners need to develop and sell tools, components, and libraries that
add value to the Borland family of products
**********************************************************************
Martin
 

Re: Is Delphi 2005 a toy?

John,
BTW, This is intended in a very friendly spirit...
The market is huge. Enoooormous. You only have 2 problems that I can see.
The fact that there is some good competition is not one of them. Good
competition is normal.
The fact that there are several free readers is not one of them. There are
many commercial products that do very well in markets that are saturated
with freebies. People don't mind paying a fee for getting what they want or
percieve to be worth it.
Your number two problem would be the availability of OE. Nothing to do with
it being free. Everything to do with it being already installed. Inertia
prevents a lot of people from bothering to look further, even though they
think about it and wouldn't mind parting with some money. But hey, look at
the success of Opera, etc. it is not insurmountable. Cool-factor & useful
features can make a difference.
What's your number one problem? it is your own inertia and I am not telling
you anything you don't already know. The last 10% is always the hardest.
It's when all the insecurities mount. it is when you really start to see the
areas that could be better (even though they aren't that important). You're
a very experienced developer. I imagine you go through it all the time at
work but with your own software you have no deadline. It doesn't HAVE to go
out the door so it doesn't. Take my advice and finish it. It may break sales
records. It may not even come close. But it will do okay at least to the
point where you will get something back for all of your hard work. Does it
really matter anyway? I always thought the whole thing was a pretty good
goal. R-e-l-e-a-s-e it. :-)
Forget about adding a zillion more things to it. Forget about continuous
polishing. Just let it have some fresh air out in the wild. It needs it and
so do you. Trust me, you will be glad you did it.
Apologies if I am overstepping bounds in offering advice on this. Heck, I'm
no different. I have started a million projects that should have done well but
were never finished. A really difficult part of any project is building it
to a point of simple solidity. An even harder part is giving it the final
shove out the door!
--
Jim Rowell