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D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK


2007-04-16 07:04:40 AM
delphi96
Does anyone know any technical reason that could have made CodeGear
chose Microsoft's HtmlHelp2 over CHM (HtmlHelp1) for D2007's help? The
drawbacks are (from my point of view, at least) a lot:
* I have always used a rather small System drive (as it allows easy
backup/restore), and having to repartition+etc is not that high in my
priorities
* My dev PC has been until now a lean system, free of .NET junk...
Although I could (probably) live with the .NET runtime, I think
forcing the .NET SDK on me just to get a lousy help viewer is rather
harsh
* From my experience with the MSDN (local) docs, HtmlHelp2 is brain-
dead technology. First namespaces introduce a lot of overhead to
something that should be simple, and the reindexing that takes place
everytime anything is changed is painful. And the performance just
sucks. My older MSDNs had more or less the same capabilities as the
newer ones, but wasting a lot less of my memory and my time.
The only (sane) reason I can come up with would be that Microsoft
forbids distributing the MSDN docs in the older HtmlHelp1
format? (Which are not much needed in a Win32-only release anyway?)
--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

The namespaces are actually a good thing if you have
multiple IDEs installed.
It means that if you have BDS2006 and BDS2007 installed you
won't link to help topics from the wrong IDE and thus get
confused when topics are present but not in the code and
vice versa.
Also up to date MSDN docs are only available in HtmlHelp2
format so Codegear have no choice.
Yes it is a pain but probably worth it in the long run.
--
HTH Pete
=================================
www.frasersoft.net
GenHelp: "Making writing help fun"
"jrg2k" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Does anyone know any technical reason that could have made
CodeGear
chose Microsoft's HtmlHelp2 over CHM (HtmlHelp1) for
D2007's help? The
drawbacks are (from my point of view, at least) a lot:

* I have always used a rather small System drive (as it
allows easy
backup/restore), and having to repartition+etc is not that
high in my
priorities

* My dev PC has been until now a lean system, free of .NET
junk...
Although I could (probably) live with the .NET runtime, I
think
forcing the .NET SDK on me just to get a lousy help viewer
is rather
harsh

* From my experience with the MSDN (local) docs, HtmlHelp2
is brain-
dead technology. First namespaces introduce a lot of
overhead to
something that should be simple, and the reindexing that
takes place
everytime anything is changed is painful. And the
performance just
sucks. My older MSDNs had more or less the same
capabilities as the
newer ones, but wasting a lot less of my memory and my
time.

The only (sane) reason I can come up with would be that
Microsoft
forbids distributing the MSDN docs in the older HtmlHelp1
format? (Which are not much needed in a Win32-only release
anyway?)



--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

Pete Fraser schrieb:
Quote
The namespaces are actually a good thing if you have
multiple IDEs installed.
It means that if you have BDS2006 and BDS2007 installed you
won't link to help topics from the wrong IDE and thus get
confused when topics are present but not in the code and
vice versa.
Also up to date MSDN docs are only available in HtmlHelp2
format so Codegear have no choice.
Yes it is a pain but probably worth it in the long run.
Any clue why MS did deprecate HTMLHelp2 even before going mainstream
with it? And anything about fixing dexplorer?
Greetings
Markus
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

They haven't deprecated it, they are limiting it is use to Visual Studio .NET
and presumably CodeGear for IDE use.
See www.helpware.net/mshelp2/msannounce.htm
Rgds Pete
"Markus.Humm" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Pete Fraser schrieb:
>The namespaces are actually a good thing if you have multiple IDEs
>installed.
>It means that if you have BDS2006 and BDS2007 installed you won't link to
>help topics from the wrong IDE and thus get confused when topics are
>present but not in the code and vice versa.
>Also up to date MSDN docs are only available in HtmlHelp2 format so
>Codegear have no choice.
>Yes it is a pain but probably worth it in the long run.

Any clue why MS did deprecate HTMLHelp2 even before going mainstream with
it? And anything about fixing dexplorer?
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

Quote
The namespaces are actually a good thing if you have
multiple IDEs installed.
It means that if you have BDS2006 and BDS2007 installed you
won't link to help topics from the wrong IDE and thus get
confused when topics are present but not in the code and
vice versa.
I agree, certainly namespaces are an elegant solution for lots of
problems. What I meant is that Microsoft's implementation in
HtmlHelp2 sucks big time, as the programmer(s) that worked on that
would have noticed soon enough, if they were ever forced to work in
any normal non-peta-hz-oil-cooled PC. I think maybe the PCs used in
Microsoft for production have made those guys lose touch with reality.
Quote
Also up to date MSDN docs are only available in HtmlHelp2
format so Codegear have no choice.
What a shame. Is really CodeGear forbidden to distribute the docs in
CHM format? I mean, I usually do that when I need to consult
something a lot, and saves me time and keeps me happy. I really hate
when my PC doesn't work as snappy as it should. it is my opinion the
computer should wait for me, not the other way around.
--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

Quote
Any clue why MS did deprecate HTMLHelp2 even before going mainstream
with it? And anything about fixing dexplorer?
Probably its lack of performance for real users' PCs? For me the real
test for Microsoft's technologies is Office. If something is supposed to
be the new sliced bread, but it ends not being used in Office, then may
be it is because it is not that great?
--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

It's not so much that they are forbidden from distributing
in .chm, more that MS supply the help in HtmlHelp2 format so
short of decompiling and editing and re-compiling in .chm
they don't have any .chm file *to* distribute.
Rgds Pete
"jrg2k" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
>Also up to date MSDN docs are only available in HtmlHelp2
>format so Codegear have no choice.

What a shame. Is really CodeGear forbidden to distribute
the docs in
CHM format? I mean, I usually do that when I need to
consult
something a lot, and saves me time and keeps me happy. I
really hate
when my PC doesn't work as snappy as it should. it is my
opinion the
computer should wait for me, not the other way around.
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

Pete Fraser schrieb:
Quote
They haven't deprecated it, they are limiting it is use to Visual Studio .NET
and presumably CodeGear for IDE use.
See www.helpware.net/mshelp2/msannounce.htm
Yes but why?
They say thei're focusing (okay it is now in the past) on a better Vista
help experience, but on what basis? HTML Help 1?
Greetings
Markus
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

Quote
It's not so much that they are forbidden from distributing
in .chm, more that MS supply the help in HtmlHelp2 format so
short of decompiling and editing and re-compiling in .chm
they don't have any .chm file *to* distribute.
Rgds Pete
Sure, but that is easily doable with a script, right, or maybe I'm
missing some detail with the search indexes or something? I suspect
there is a reason for going with HtmlHelp2, besides it being the
original format of the MSDN docs.
Regards,
jr
--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

CodeGear have to licence the re-distribution of help files
and I guess that that licence says that they can not change
the format.
The search indexes are completely different in HtmlHelp2
which won't help and AFAIK there isn't a converter to
convert from HtmlHelp2->HtmlHelp1 (there is for the other
direction)
Rgds Pete
"jrg2k" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
>It's not so much that they are forbidden from
>distributing
>in .chm, more that MS supply the help in HtmlHelp2 format
>so
>short of decompiling and editing and re-compiling in .chm
>they don't have any .chm file *to* distribute.
>Rgds Pete

Sure, but that is easily doable with a script, right, or
maybe I'm
missing some detail with the search indexes or something?
I suspect
there is a reason for going with HtmlHelp2, besides it
being the
original format of the MSDN docs.
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

"Pete Fraser" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in
message news:XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
Quote
CodeGear have to licence the re-distribution of help files and I guess
that that licence says that they can not change the format.
The search indexes are completely different in HtmlHelp2 which won't help
and AFAIK there isn't a converter to convert from HtmlHelp2->HtmlHelp1
(there is for the other direction)
Somebody else here pointed to an HxS to CHM converter earlier today:
www.processtext.com/abchxs.html
 

Re:D2007-W32's Help and .NET SDK

Yes that was very interesting.
Pete
"Chris Burrows" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
"Pete Fraser"
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in
message news:XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>CodeGear have to licence the re-distribution of help
>files and I guess that that licence says that they can't
>change the format.
>The search indexes are completely different in HtmlHelp2
>which won't help and AFAIK there isn't a converter to
>convert from HtmlHelp2->HtmlHelp1 (there is for the other
>direction)

Somebody else here pointed to an HxS to CHM converter
earlier today:

www.processtext.com/abchxs.html