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Hotfix for edit context menu bug?


2007-10-01 04:05:17 AM
delphi279
Nick & co:
Any update on a hotfix for the edit context menu bug (Q51968 and
others)? It is a bit of a show-stopper unless you want to use an
unofficial fix or completely uninstall Delphi/Studio, re-install SP2,
and forgo the fixes/improvements in SP3...
Many of us really need an official fix ASAP!
On a more serious note, how did this glaring bug actually get through QA
and beta testing? As the code involved was AIUI changed to fix a
particular problem (Q42752?), this menu side-effect should have been
detected before that fix was approved/committed (it was related to
WM_CONTEXTMENU after all).
M J Marshall
 
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

M J Marshall [King Stairs Software] writes:
Quote
On a more serious note, how did this glaring bug actually get through
QA and beta testing?
How often do you use the context menu for edits? As developer you
mostly know the short cuts (Ctrl+C/V/X). Only end-customers seem to use
the context menu. And as you can assume, all beta testers are
developers.
Quote
this menu side-effect should have been detected before that fix was
approved/committed
Update 2 hadn't included that wrong fix, so this bug was fixed after
Update 2 was released. That means that my comment in QC 42752 was there
for more than 3 months and nobody recognized it. Why do we have a
comment function if that isn't propagated to the internal bug tracking
system. For chatting we don't need comments. Chatting can be done in
newsgroups.
--
Regards,
Andreas Hausladen
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Andreas Hausladen writes:
Quote
Update 2 hadn't included that wrong fix, so this bug was fixed after
Update 2 was released. That means that my comment in QC 42752 was
there for more than 3 months and nobody recognized it. Why do we have
a comment function if that isn't propagated to the internal bug
tracking system. For chatting we don't need comments. Chatting can be
done in newsgroups.
The fundamental problem is that there are two bug databases. CG are
making their life unnecisarily complicated by maintaining and trying to
sync two bug databases.
I too am not surprised by this kind of bug slipping though. It does
happen. The thing that is inexcusable is that there is no fixed version
within a reasonble time frame. Joel's lists asks: "Can you make a build
in one click". With build including generating help files and creating
a new installer. CG certainly can not. Any small software company can
or at least can do it in very few steps, because they would go out of
business if they could not do that. The good news is that guys like
Nick seems to understand the urgency for CG to become more agile.
Jan Derk
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Jan Derk schrieb:
Quote
I too am not surprised by this kind of bug slipping though. It does
happen. The thing that is inexcusable is that there is no fixed version
within a reasonble time frame. Joel's lists asks: "Can you make a build
in one click". With build including generating help files and creating
a new installer. CG certainly can not. Any small software company can
or at least can do it in very few steps, because they would go out of
business if they could not do that. The good news is that guys like
Nick seems to understand the urgency for CG to become more agile.
While it may be possible to make a new build in one click, there are
some things to consider:
1. We don't know about the time a complete build will need. If they
include installation tests on different machines, this may take some
time. Taking the "cost" of such build may not justify to include only
this small bugfix.
2. There might be a reason for making the change indroducing this bug.
This is likely to be covered by a regression test that will trigger if
you simply revert the changes. At least my build process would not allow
releasing something that fails a regression test.
3. Providing a simple bugfix alone may not be done in one click.
Considering "2." it needs some manual interference to overcome that issue.
4. The bugfix has to be tested internally and with beta testers before
it can be spread in the wild. One has to ensure that it installs
properly on various systems with differing configurations. This
definitely needs some time.
It may sound somewhat Dilbertish but a small fix in code may need a lot
of other things to do until it finally finds it is way to the customer.
Uwe Raabe
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Jan Derk writes:
Quote
The thing that is inexcusable is that there is no fixed version
within a reasonble time frame.
Which do you think we ought to do:
1. Rush out a fix without proper testing and possibly make things
worse.
2. Take a bit more time to test and make sure that things are working
properly and that the fix doesn't cause another regression.
?
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Jan Derk writes:
Quote
"Can you make a build
in one click".
And yes, we can make a build in one click.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Jan Derk writes:

>The thing that is inexcusable is that there is no fixed version
>within a reasonble time frame.

Which do you think we ought to do:

1. Rush out a fix without proper testing and possibly make things
worse.
2. Take a bit more time to test and make sure that things are working
properly and that the fix doesn't cause another regression.

?

I think you should do just what many companies do...
If you have a fix that is not fully tested, you release it as beta with
no support.
If you have a fix that IS fully tested, you release it without
indicating that it is a 'beta' release, and without the 'use at your own
risk' notation.
This gives you feedback on possible fixes, and lets those who need the
fixes use them...
David Erbas-White
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Andreas Hausladen writes:
Quote
M J Marshall [King Stairs Software] writes:

>On a more serious note, how did this glaring bug actually get
>through QA and beta testing?

How often do you use the context menu for edits?
Speaking for myself, all the time.
Quote
And as you can assume, all beta testers are developers.
Given that fixes/changes in Delphi can significantly impact applications
built with Delphi, I'd reasonably expect CodeGear to perform tests
with end-users (eg using the sample applications) as part of QA.
Michael
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
1. Rush out a fix without proper testing and possibly make things
worse.
2. Take a bit more time to test and make sure that things are working
properly and that the fix doesn't cause another regression.
For this particular bug (which is well understood) I don't see that
speed and caution are necessarily mutually exclusive...
Regards,
Michael
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Which do you think we ought to do:

1. Rush out a fix without proper testing and possibly make things
worse.
2. Take a bit more time to test and make sure that things are working
properly and that the fix doesn't cause another regression.
Why not simply revert the change for now, and revisit the issue in a
later version when you have the time to do proper testing?
--
Jordan Russell
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
>The thing that is inexcusable is that there is no fixed version
>within a reasonble time frame.
Which do you think we ought to do:
1. Rush out a fix without proper testing and possibly make things
worse.
2. Take a bit more time to test and make sure that things are working
properly and that the fix doesn't cause another regression.
As you say in your other post that you can indeed build including
installers and help in a single click, I propose 3:
- Check out Delphi 2007 update 3.
- Revert the single line of code which caused this.
- Build and release as public beta.
- If no adverse sideeffects are noticed: release official version after
a few days.
- Reopen QC42752 for fixing in the current Delphi version and add a big
warning *not* to use the proposed fix.
The situation is that there is a very serious bug with no easy
workaround which breaks the popup menu for all your customers. The
cause of the problem is clear and reverting the single line of code to
the pre update 3 state is very low risk as long as you have a good
build system. In situations like this common sense should take
precedence over rigid procedures.
Jan Derk
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

"Nick Hodges (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote
Quote
Which do you think we ought to do:

1. Rush out a fix without proper testing and possibly make things
worse.
2. Take a bit more time to test and make sure that things are working
properly and that the fix doesn't cause another regression.
I humbly think you ought to avoid false dichotomies.
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

M J Marshall [King Stairs Software] writes:
Quote
For this particular bug (which is well understood) I don't see that
speed and caution are necessarily mutually exclusive...
Hehe -- well, okay, I can understand that you'd think that. ;-)
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Jordan Russell writes:
Quote
Why not simply revert the change for now, and revisit the issue in a
later version when you have the time to do proper testing?
That's pretty much what we are doing.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re:Hotfix for edit context menu bug?

Jan Derk writes:
Quote
- Build and release as public beta.
- If no adverse sideeffects are noticed: release official version
after a few days.
- Reopen QC42752 for fixing in the current Delphi version and add a
big warning not to use the proposed fix.
It never works out that way -- there is no such thing as a public beta
for this kind of thing, believe me.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges