Board index » delphi » Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge

Mike Smit

Delphi Developer
Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge

Quote
Big Brother Inside wrote in message <36e3fbf9.6298...@news.earthlink.net>...

> Pentium III chip with the individual serial number that can
>track your web surfing and buying habits can now have the ID number

ANSI C does not contain any functions or structures regarding processor
serial numbers.  Your post is off-topic for news://comp.lang.c but it might
be more appropriate on
comp.intel.quit.yer.whinin.if.you.dont.like.it.dont.buy.the.damn.thing.
'kay?
--
Mike Smith.  No, the other one.
 
Kenny Chaff

Delphi Developer
Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


In article <7bf1q2$cu...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
kld_msm...@NOSPAMearthlink.net says...

Quote
> Big Brother Inside wrote in message <36e3fbf9.6298...@news.earthlink.net>...

> > Pentium III chip with the individual serial number that can
> >track your web surfing and buying habits can now have the ID number

> ANSI C does not contain any functions or structures regarding processor
> serial numbers.  Your post is off-topic for news://comp.lang.c but it might
> be more appropriate on
> comp.intel.quit.yer.whinin.if.you.dont.like.it.dont.buy.the.damn.thing.
> 'kay?
> --
> Mike Smith.  No, the other one.

Well you may not want to admit it, but it will affect you or your
customers/clients/company....
And as far as not buying it, that would be great if intel/microsoft
didn't have a monopoly on the pc market....

Best Wishes,
KAC
--
KAC Website Design
Custom Programming, Web Design, and Graphics
ke...@kacweb.com    -     http://www.kacweb.com

Jon Helm

Delphi Developer
Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


You afraid of making it easier to track down stolen CPUs?  What are you
trying to hide that you don't want people to have your CPU ID?  It isn't
like it can be used for much but tracking thefts.

Jon Helms

Quote
Kenny Chaffin wrote:

> In article <7bf1q2$cu...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> kld_msm...@NOSPAMearthlink.net says...
> > Big Brother Inside wrote in message <36e3fbf9.6298...@news.earthlink.net>...

> > > Pentium III chip with the individual serial number that can
> > >track your web surfing and buying habits can now have the ID number

> > ANSI C does not contain any functions or structures regarding processor
> > serial numbers.  Your post is off-topic for news://comp.lang.c but it might
> > be more appropriate on
> > comp.intel.quit.yer.whinin.if.you.dont.like.it.dont.buy.the.damn.thing.
> > 'kay?
> > --
> > Mike Smith.  No, the other one.

> Well you may not want to admit it, but it will affect you or your
> customers/clients/company....
> And as far as not buying it, that would be great if intel/microsoft
> didn't have a monopoly on the pc market....

> Best Wishes,
> KAC
> --
> KAC Website Design
> Custom Programming, Web Design, and Graphics
> ke...@kacweb.com    -     http://www.kacweb.com

Christopher Nelso

Delphi Developer
Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


Quote
Kenny Chaffin wrote:

> In article <7bf1q2$cu...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> kld_msm...@NOSPAMearthlink.net says...
> > Big Brother Inside wrote in message <36e3fbf9.6298...@news.earthlink.net>...

> > > Pentium III chip with the individual serial number that can
> > >track your web surfing and buying habits can now have the ID number

> > ANSI C does not contain any functions or structures regarding processor
> > serial numbers.  Your post is off-topic for news://comp.lang.c but it might
> > be more appropriate on
> > comp.intel.quit.yer.whinin.if.you.dont.like.it.dont.buy.the.damn.thing.
> > 'kay?
> > --
> > Mike Smith.  No, the other one.

> Well you may not want to admit it, but it will affect you or your
> customers/clients/company....
> And as far as not buying it, that would be great if intel/microsoft
> didn't have a monopoly on the pc market....

What monopoly? I've got an AMD chip in my PC.

                                             Chris
--
Rens-se-LEER is a county.  RENS-se-ler is a city.  R-P-I is a school!

Mike Tille

Delphi Developer
Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


Quote
Christopher Nelson <ch...@pinebush.com> writes:
> Kenny Chaffin wrote:

> > Well you may not want to admit it, but it will affect you or your
> > customers/clients/company....
> > And as far as not buying it, that would be great if intel/microsoft
> > didn't have a monopoly on the pc market....

> What monopoly? I've got an AMD chip in my PC.

Exactly.  Anybody who thinks Intel is a monopoly just doesn't know the
facts.

Just yesterday on CNN, they said, excluding business PCs, AMD sold
*more* processors than Intel for use in desktop PCs.  In fact, Intel
was recently downgraded by somebody because of projected lower profits
due to AMD.  The only good thing for Intel is that the FTC won't come
after them with an anti-trust lawsuit so long as this keeps up.

Quote
>                                              Chris
> --
> Rens-se-LEER is a county.  RENS-se-ler is a city.  R-P-I is a school!

--
Michael Tiller
Ford Motor Company
Bob Butle

Delphi Developer
Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


Quote
Jon Helms wrote in message <36DB485A.79499...@purdue.edu>...

<cut>
Quote
> What are you trying to hide that you don't want people to have your CPU

ID?
<cut>

The argument that "if you have nothing to hide then you should not object to
being searched" has been used many times to take away the basic right to
privacy.  Sometimes the principle is more important than the specific
instance.  I would agree that there are reasons for having this and in the
particular case of CPU IDs I have mixed feelings and no decision yet.  The
above argument, however, is a strong case for fighting it.

wetbo

Delphi Developer
Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


In comp.lang.c Mike Tiller <mtil...@ptrs14.srl.ford.com> wrote:
: Christopher Nelson <ch...@pinebush.com> writes:

Quote
:> Kenny Chaffin wrote:

:>
:> > Well you may not want to admit it, but it will affect you or your
:> > customers/clients/company....
:> > And as far as not buying it, that would be great if intel/microsoft
:> > didn't have a monopoly on the pc market....
:>
:> What monopoly? I've got an AMD chip in my PC.

: Exactly.  Anybody who thinks Intel is a monopoly just doesn't know the
: facts.

My AMD K5 processor computer has been very happily running
Windows NT 4.0 for the past couple of years, and I'm looking
forward to purchasing an AMD K7 when it comes out, partly
to avoid "Big Brother Inside".

Read here, post here.

-- Wetboy

Al Christian

Delphi Developer
Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


I'm afraid that the really big (money) issue wrt CPU ID's is one
that no one has noticed much yet.  It has to do with electronic
commerce apps.  The application development opportunities here
are endless.  There is already a great deal of work on custom
content in the development of web and e-business apps.  What the
CPU ID allows is the identification of particular customers as
suckers who will not get a very good price offer, and of others
as smart shoppers who must be given competitive pricing.  Our
typical markets today with posted pricing do not facilitate
changing the price based on what it looks like the particular
customer will stand -- it is only worthwhile in negotiaing big
ticket items like cars, houses,  mainframe computer systems,
enterprise-wide software licenses.  E-business changes all that,
and what it will allow, particularly if big companies get to
dominate  electronic markets, is the elimination of list prices
and their replacement with customer-specific pricing.  

Imagine a database circulated amongst sellers that identifies you
as someone who is willing to pay high prices, so that high prices
are  what is offered to you, while others are getting better deals.  
This is far from the optimal free market economy described by Adam
Smith and other expositors of the advantages of economic freedom,  
and it is something that we ought to try to prevent.  It is not
benign technology.  Socially responsible software developers should
not promote or assist it.

Al

Quote
Bob Butler wrote:

> Jon Helms wrote in message <36DB485A.79499...@purdue.edu>...
> <cut>
> > What are you trying to hide that you don't want people to have your CPU
> ID?
> <cut>

> The argument that "if you have nothing to hide then you should not object to
> being searched" has been used many times to take away the basic right to
> privacy.  Sometimes the principle is more important than the specific
> instance.  I would agree that there are reasons for having this and in the
> particular case of CPU IDs I have mixed feelings and no decision yet.  The
> above argument, however, is a strong case for fighting it.

Kathryn Taylor Jenning

Delphi Developer
Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


OK, I haven't checked this out _personally_ but this is a direct quote from
www.bigbrotherinside.com:

What about using using the PSN to prevent chip theft and
                  overclocking?

                  Chip theft is an important issue and thefts cost the industry and
Intel millions
                  of dollars each year. However, Intel states that the PSN is not
designed to be
                  used for either preventing chip theft or limiting overclocking.

If anyone knows otherwise would they please post something to this effect?

Quote
Jon Helms wrote: "You afraid of making it easier to track down stolen CPUs?......"

--

"The effort of using machines to mimic the human mind
has always struck me as rather silly. I would rather
use them to mimic something better"
- Professor Edsger Dijkstra

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has limits" - Albert Einstein

Kenny Chaff

Delphi Developer
Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


In article <2uilnhg3to1....@ptrs14.srl.ford.com>,
mtil...@ptrs14.srl.ford.com says...

Quote
> Christopher Nelson <ch...@pinebush.com> writes:

> > Kenny Chaffin wrote:

> > > Well you may not want to admit it, but it will affect you or your
> > > customers/clients/company....
> > > And as far as not buying it, that would be great if intel/microsoft
> > > didn't have a monopoly on the pc market....

> > What monopoly? I've got an AMD chip in my PC.

> Exactly.  Anybody who thinks Intel is a monopoly just doesn't know the
> facts.

> Just yesterday on CNN, they said, excluding business PCs, AMD sold
> *more* processors than Intel for use in desktop PCs.  In fact, Intel
> was recently downgraded by somebody because of projected lower profits
> due to AMD.  The only good thing for Intel is that the FTC won't come
> after them with an anti-trust lawsuit so long as this keeps up.

> >                                              Chris
> > --
> > Rens-se-LEER is a county.  RENS-se-ler is a city.  R-P-I is a school!

> --
> Michael Tiller
> Ford Motor Company

Yep, and Intel is paid a royalty on every one!

--
KAC Website Design
Custom Programming, Web Design, and Graphics
ke...@kacweb.com    -     http://www.kacweb.com

Thane Hubbe

Delphi Developer
Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:26:15, Al Christians <achr...@easystreet.com>
wrote:

Quote
> I'm afraid that the really big (money) issue wrt CPU ID's is one
> that no one has noticed much yet.  It has to do with electronic
> commerce apps.  The application development opportunities here
> are endless.  There is already a great deal of work on custom
> content in the development of web and e-business apps.  What the
> CPU ID allows is the identification of particular customers as
> suckers who will not get a very good price offer, and of others
> as smart shoppers who must be given competitive pricing

I mentioned in a earlier message that I wrote a copy protection scheme
for my software based on BIOS data and machine type.  This was a
FIASCO from day one, as users would change machines, upgrade machines
etc.  Trying to ID a PERSON from a CPU ID is nuts.  The best you can
do is ID the CPU.  This will be a good thing for software licenses -
to an individual CPU.  I see this coming, actually, from MicroSoft.  
Buy Windows 98/2000 and install it on "THIS" CPU - but no other.  
Great for software sales.  But as a method to ID a particular
consumer?   Not a chance.
paul millig

Delphi Developer
Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


red...@ibm.net (Thane Hubbell) pondered briefly, and wrote:

        { post list allowed, because this aspect does relate across
platforms / groups, IMO }

Quote
>> content in the development of web and e-business apps.  What the
>> CPU ID allows is the identification of particular customers as
>> suckers who will not get a very good price offer, and of others
>> as smart shoppers who must be given competitive pricing

        And the first respsone of the market will be access sites that
get around that.  Non-issue, even if there weren't other objections on
the supplier side..

Quote
>I mentioned in a earlier message that I wrote a copy protection scheme
>for my software based on BIOS data and machine type.  This was a
>FIASCO from day one, as users would change machines, upgrade machines
>etc.  Trying to ID a PERSON from a CPU ID is nuts.  The best you can
>do is ID the CPU.  This will be a good thing for software licenses -
>to an individual CPU.  I see this coming, actually, from MicroSoft.  
>Buy Windows 98/2000 and install it on "THIS" CPU - but no other.  

        Certainly do-able, and likely to happen ( not just Windows,
but all platforms / languages ).

Quote
>Great for software sales.  But as a method to ID a particular
>consumer?   Not a chance.

        Do you license a person or a copy ( therefore one machine ) ?
Personally, I license per copy, not per person.  You want to run it on
another machine, you buy another ( discounted ) license.

Paul

Quote
>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~

pjm@(remove this part )pobox.com
My WWW site is at http://www.pobox.com/~pjm, featuring free HVAC software.
The Sci.Engr.Heat-Vent-AC and Alt.HVAC FAQ is at http://www.elitesoft.com/web/sci.hvac/
Jochem Huhma

Delphi Developer
Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


In article <Jl0PnHJ5PvPd-pn2-KwvJTdwEhfpR@dwight_miller.iix.com>,
        red...@ibm.net (Thane Hubbell) writes:
TH> On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:26:15, Al Christians <achr...@easystreet.com>
Quote
TH> wrote:

TH>
Quote
>> I'm afraid that the really big (money) issue wrt CPU ID's is one
>> that no one has noticed much yet.  It has to do with electronic
>> commerce apps.  The application development opportunities here
>> are endless.  There is already a great deal of work on custom
>> content in the development of web and e-business apps.  What the
>> CPU ID allows is the identification of particular customers as
>> suckers who will not get a very good price offer, and of others
>> as smart shoppers who must be given competitive pricing

TH>
TH> I mentioned in a earlier message that I wrote a copy protection scheme
TH> for my software based on BIOS data and machine type.  This was a
TH> FIASCO from day one, as users would change machines, upgrade machines
TH> etc.  Trying to ID a PERSON from a CPU ID is nuts.  The best you can
TH> do is ID the CPU.  This will be a good thing for software licenses -
TH> to an individual CPU.  I see this coming, actually, from MicroSoft.  
TH> Buy Windows 98/2000 and install it on "THIS" CPU - but no other.  
TH> Great for software sales.  But as a method to ID a particular
TH> consumer?   Not a chance.

Who cares about software that requires licences? And how is this
related to comp.lang.tcl?

BTW: Every ethernet card on this planet has an unique ID. Since
ages. That's very useful and nobody has crossposted in this regard
over 10 newsgroup all the time.

--
# Jochem Huhmann <j...@gmx.net> Duisburg (Germany)

When the revolution comes, I will be shot by both sides.

paul millig

Delphi Developer
Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


j...@gmx.net (Jochem Huhmann) pondered briefly, and wrote:

Quote
>Who cares about software that requires licences?

        All users, and most programmers ( any who ever wrote something
worth selling )

Quote
>And how is this
>related to comp.lang.tcl?

        As above.

Quote
>BTW: Every ethernet card on this planet has an unique ID. Since
>ages. That's very useful and nobody has crossposted in this regard
>over 10 newsgroup all the time.

        You haven't even bothered reading the thread.  It's been
mentioned repeatedly, in multiple contexts.

Paul

Quote
>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~

pjm@(remove this part )pobox.com
My WWW site is at http://www.pobox.com/~pjm, featuring free HVAC software.
The Sci.Engr.Heat-Vent-AC and Alt.HVAC FAQ is at http://www.elitesoft.com/web/sci.hvac/
Jerome O'Nei

Delphi Developer
Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:00:00 GMT

Re:Pentium III Chips Released with IDs - Intel won't budge


Quote
paul milligan wrote:
> Do you license a person or a copy ( therefore one machine ) ?
> Personally, I license per copy, not per person.  You want to run it on
> another machine, you buy another ( discounted ) license.

I have about 40 people running the same software on one machine.  How
does your license fit that model, and how does a PSN identify an
individual user?

Per-seat licensing is a pretty standard model.

--
Jerome O'Neil, Operations and Information Services
Atrieva Corporation, 600 University St., Ste. 911, Seattle, WA 98101
jero...@atrieva.com - Voice:206/749-2947
The Atrieva Service: Safe and Easy Online Backup  http://www.atrieva.com

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