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Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?

I may fall in a commom place, but Why support to only Micro$oft products ?
 

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


        likely return on the investment.

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Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


In article <4eebq6$...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
Mathew Gyokers Eliot <memo...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:

Quote

>    likely return on the investment.

It's an empty market - no competition with a considerable number
of quality-tool-starved bods, like myself. bearing in mind Borlands
own existing C++ compiler is ported to OS/2, and there is a 32 bit
version of Delphi in the process of rolling out, I would have thought
an OS/2 port to be technically straightforward for a company such as
Borland. I own a copy of Borlands OS/2 C++ compiler. I'd like to
own a copy of Borlands Object Pascal Compiler and rapid application
development environment, otherwise known as Delphi, for OS/2.

I never cease to be amazed that a group of intellectually capable
people who have chosen to spurn Microsoft and VB are so keen to
oppose any serious competition to Microsoft in the Operating System
area - it's paradoxical really...

Paul.

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140A High Street               email: firstname.lastn...@ig.co.uk
Godalming                      voice: +44 1483 424424
Surrey, UK                       fax: +44 1483 419419

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


Quote
In article <DLy05G....@ig.co.uk> Paul.Ing...@ig.co.uk "Paul Ingram" writes:
> In article <4eebq6$...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
> Mathew Gyokers Eliot <memo...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:

> >       likely return on the investment.

> It's an empty market - no competition with a considerable number
> of quality-tool-starved bods, like myself. bearing in mind Borlands
> own existing C++ compiler is ported to OS/2, and there is a 32 bit
> version of Delphi in the process of rolling out, I would have thought
> an OS/2 port to be technically straightforward for a company such as
> Borland. I own a copy of Borlands OS/2 C++ compiler. I'd like to
> own a copy of Borlands Object Pascal Compiler and rapid application
> development environment, otherwise known as Delphi, for OS/2.

> I never cease to be amazed that a group of intellectually capable
> people who have chosen to spurn Microsoft and VB are so keen to
> oppose any serious competition to Microsoft in the Operating System
> area - it's paradoxical really...

Come on. How many copies of OS/2 are not being used either
as a server OS  or, on the desktop, mostly to run windows
applications?

A version of Delphi for the Mac would ptobably have more
sales than an OS/2 version - (and might almost amount to
the same thing with OS/2 for the PPC)

On Intel PCs, NT probably has more of future than OS/2 and
afaik really offers everything that OS/2 does. With a C++
compiler for OS/2 Borland probably know exactly what the
market for development tools on that platform is like (and
how much help they can expect from IBM). Whatever you think
of Microsoft - how does it suddenly make IBM pure as the
driven snow?

- Chris

--
Christopher J Fynn <cf...@sahaja.demon.co.uk>

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


In case youre interested, there is a company (non-Borland) producing an
Object Pascal, Delphi compatible compiler for OS/2. im sorry i forgot the
name, but according to one of the principals on Compu$erve, there should
be a summer rollout...

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


It would probably have something to do with the fact that Windows
users heavily outnumber OS/2 users.  A very high percentage of OS/2
programmers(even less of them exist than OS/2 users) would have to
ditch their well-established tools for Delphi to come anywhere close
to making Borland their R&D dollars back.

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


Chris,

In article <822922841...@sahaja.demon.co.uk>,
Christopher Fynn  <cf...@sahaja.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Quote
>In article <DLy05G....@ig.co.uk> Paul.Ing...@ig.co.uk "Paul Ingram" writes:

>> In article <4eebq6$...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
>> Mathew Gyokers Eliot <memo...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:

>> >       likely return on the investment.

>> It's an empty market - no competition with a considerable number
>> of quality-tool-starved bods, like myself. bearing in mind Borlands
>> own existing C++ compiler is ported to OS/2, and there is a 32 bit
>> version of Delphi in the process of rolling out, I would have thought
>> an OS/2 port to be technically straightforward for a company such as
>> Borland. I own a copy of Borlands OS/2 C++ compiler. I'd like to
>> own a copy of Borlands Object Pascal Compiler and rapid application
>> development environment, otherwise known as Delphi, for OS/2.

>> I never cease to be amazed that a group of intellectually capable
>> people who have chosen to spurn Microsoft and VB are so keen to
>> oppose any serious competition to Microsoft in the Operating System
>> area - it's paradoxical really...

>Come on. How many copies of OS/2 are not being used either
>as a server OS  or, on the desktop, mostly to run windows
>applications?

Mine. Everyone else who works for me and runs OS/2 as a desktop
client. (We have LAN Server too). Delphi is the *only* Windows
application I run. I can't speak for the rest of the world other
than to express surprise that I am the only one who has bought the
OS/2 native applications I use. I express further surprise that you
think people buy OS/2 to run only Windows applications - what
strange behavior that would be indeed.

Quote
>A version of Delphi for the Mac would ptobably have more
>sales than an OS/2 version - (and might almost amount to
>the same thing with OS/2 for the PPC)

As we have OS/2, NT Advanced Server, Win3.x, AIX, Solaris and
others in house, I feel comfortable that I am not one of those
who speaks without experience. We do not currently have any Macs,
although I maintain a high regard for Apple. Your 'ptobably' is
based on supposition - I see no facts here. OS/2 for the PPC is
to all intents and purposes dead. It is only available by special
order and only on certain IBM PPC platforms. I can email you the
press release if you would like.

Quote
>On Intel PCs, NT probably has more of future than OS/2

The way IBM are behaving I'd have to agree.

Quote
>and afaik really offers everything that OS/2 does.

And in some cases more, in others less. I think your 'afaik'
is accurate.

Quote
>With a C++
>compiler for OS/2 Borland probably know exactly what the
>market for development tools on that platform is like

Yes, they recently released version 2.

Quote
>(and how much help they can expect from IBM).

My understanding is that IBM have been very keen to help
developers.

Quote
>Whatever you think of Microsoft - how does it suddenly make IBM
>pure as the driven snow?

I think that if you study my posting you will find that I made no
references to IBM being pure as the driven snow.

Moving back to the subject of the posting, I would suggest that
whoever posted this message posted it because he wanted Delphi
for OS/2 rather than an extended NT-V-OS/2 humbug thread.

I choose to disagree with Mathew Gyokers Eliot's rather contrite
summary. It's my right as an individual. It doesn't mean he's
wrong either. I just disagree.

If you are really e{*word*277}d about this Chris, feel free to email
me to spare the readers the boredom of more MS/IBM subjective
opinions (from both parties) and bandwidth using nonsense.

Quote

>- Chris

>--
>Christopher J Fynn <cf...@sahaja.demon.co.uk>

Paul.
--
Paul Ingram Group Ltd
140A High Street               email: firstname.lastn...@ig.co.uk
Godalming                      voice: +44 1483 424424
Surrey, UK                       fax: +44 1483 419419

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


[snip]

Quote
>On Intel PCs, NT probably has more of future than OS/2 and
>afaik really offers everything that OS/2 does. With a C++
>compiler for OS/2 Borland probably know exactly what the
>market for development tools on that platform is like (and
>how much help they can expect from IBM). Whatever you think
>of Microsoft - how does it suddenly make IBM pure as the
>driven snow?

Apps drive the O/S.  There are many people who would rather use
OS/2 than Windows (myself included).  But, being a developer, I
can't justify sharpening skills in that direction when the market
base is in Windows. However, I have turned down or not gone after
contracts for OS/2 development because of the lack of rad tools
(same with Mac).  If a good Rad tool like Delphi was available
for these OS'es, I would be able to do that.

John

--
Delphi tools                       See http://www.rt66.com/jreynd
Screen Dream                                             SendKeys

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


Quote
Christopher Fynn wrote:

> In article <DLy05G....@ig.co.uk> Paul.Ing...@ig.co.uk "Paul Ingram" writes:

[...]

Quote
> Come on. How many copies of OS/2 are not being used either
> as a server OS  or, on the desktop, mostly to run windows
> applications?

Very, very many. A *lot* of banks for example has A LOT of OS/2
installations running inhouse-build software, or special software.
A RAD tool is probably one of the smartest pieces of software ANYONE
could develop for OS/2.

Quote
> On Intel PCs, NT probably has more of future than OS/2 and
> afaik really offers everything that OS/2 does.

Well, this depends. NT is quite a lot fatter than OS/2. OS/2
does most of what NT does with the HW req's of Windows 95. OS/2
also does A LOT that NT doesn't, and probably will not do until
some time in 1998-99. OS/2 is a wonderful envrionment to do
software dev. for, due to the inherent OO of the user interface.

Quote
> With a C++
> compiler for OS/2 Borland probably know exactly what the
> market for development tools on that platform is like (and
> how much help they can expect from IBM).

The Borland C++ compiler for OS/2 never sold too well. Why not?
Because at version 1.0 it was a piece of {*word*99}. At later versions
it was *somewhat* better, but never up to the standards of Watcom
or IBM's offerings. Borlands problems on the OS/2 platform is a
result of Borland incompetency. They can't blame it on IBM.

Quote
> Whatever you think
> of Microsoft - how does it suddenly make IBM pure as the
> driven snow?

IBM is probably not much better than MS in many areas. They are
on one critical though. They know how to write operating systems,
MS don't. The only working operating system from MS was more or
less written by Digital really. OK, well, by employees that were
prior to the NT project working for Digital.

I run NT for it's stability. I prefer OS/2's interface and programming
model thoough. But it is true that NT is somewhat more stable than
OS/2.

---Terje

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


In article <310D48D2.3...@basil.stthom.edu>,

Quote
 <kpatr...@basil.stthom.edu> wrote:
>It would probably have something to do with the fact that Windows
>users heavily outnumber OS/2 users.

:-) Err... I think you're right (sadly).

Quote
>A very high percentage of OS/2 programmers (even less of them exist
>than OS/2 users)

I believe that this may apply to Windows programmers too - it would
be strange if there were more Windows programmers than Windows
users, wouldn't it ? But it's a crowded market so maybe things
are that bad now...

Quote
>would have to
>ditch their well-established tools for Delphi to come anywhere close
>to making Borland their R&D dollars back.

Believe me, as a developer who has undertaken OS/2 work (amongst
others) Delphi would blow like a cool mountain breeze through the
stultifying atmosphere of most OS/2 development tools.

They are capable, Oh yes, but they are nothing like Delphi. And I
would imagine that the possibilities under OS/2 bearing in mind
that the WorkPlaceShell is based on IBM's System Object Model would
be tremendous. Probably be fun to do, too...

Paul.

--
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140A High Street               email: firstname.lastn...@ig.co.uk
Godalming                      voice: +44 1483 424424
Surrey, UK                       fax: +44 1483 419419

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


Quote
kpatr...@basil.stthom.edu wrote:

It would probably have something to do with the fact that Windows
users heavily outnumber OS/2 users.  A very high percentage of OS/2
programmers(even less of them exist than OS/2 users) would have to
ditch their well-established tools for Delphi to come anywhere close
to making Borland their R&D dollars back.
Quote
>> If there was just one good tool for OS/2, my guess is that the tool would sell
>>  like hot-cakes since it would have no competition.   In the Windows
>>  environment, there may be a bigger market,  but there is a lot of competition.
>> IMHO, a very high precentage of OS/2 developers would drool over the
>> prospects of Delphi for OS/2, since there are no well-established  RAD tools
>> available.  You never know, a product like Delphi for OS/2 may actually boost
>> the market size of OS/2.  I used to be an OS/2 developer, but jumped into Windows
>> after giving up on the tools in OS/2, not OS/2 itself.  Delphi is light years ahead of
>> any OS/2 RAD tool available.  Who knows, others like myself may actually jump
>> back into the OS/2 world provided with a Delphi for OS/2.

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


On Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:32:03 GMT, Paul Ingram <Paul.Ing...@ig.co.uk>
wrote:

Quote
>In article <4eebq6$...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
>Mathew Gyokers Eliot <memo...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:

>>        likely return on the investment.

>It's an empty market - no competition with a considerable number
>of quality-tool-starved bods, like myself. bearing in mind Borlands
>own existing C++ compiler is ported to OS/2, and there is a 32 bit
>version of Delphi in the process of rolling out, I would have thought
>an OS/2 port to be technically straightforward for a company such as
>Borland. I own a copy of Borlands OS/2 C++ compiler. I'd like to
>own a copy of Borlands Object Pascal Compiler and rapid application
>development environment, otherwise known as Delphi, for OS/2.

>I never cease to be amazed that a group of intellectually capable
>people who have chosen to spurn Microsoft and VB are so keen to
>oppose any serious competition to Microsoft in the Operating System
>area - it's paradoxical really...

>Paul.

>--
>Paul Ingram Group Ltd
>140A High Street               email: firstname.lastn...@ig.co.uk
>Godalming                      voice: +44 1483 424424
>Surrey, UK                       fax: +44 1483 419419

Give it a year, and you will probably have something like "Delphi" to
work with. I'm refering to the immanent introduction of "Power PC's"
later this year. The new agreed architecture looks like being a great
step forward, that must surely effect the availability a "Delphi" like
tool for a variety of operating systems.

Simon.

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


Quote
kpatr...@basil.stthom.edu wrote:

> It would probably have something to do with the fact that Windows
> users heavily outnumber OS/2 users.  A very high percentage of OS/2
> programmers(even less of them exist than OS/2 users) would have to
> ditch their well-established tools for Delphi to come anywhere close
> to making Borland their R&D dollars back.

Well, I don't want to start a flame ware about OS's here (I use NT
mainly, but OS/2 and Linux a lot too).

With Delphi32 the question is not how many Windows users there are,
but how many Win32 users there are. At the momen there are fewer
Win32 users than OS/2 users. They are also distributet *very*
differently. There are far more "professional" OS/2 users than Win95
users (even more NT users). Companies are *not* buying Win95 yet.
A lot of companies *have* standarized on OS/2.

A RAD tool is used a lot for inhouse development. There is *guaranteed*
a *lot* more inhouse dev. at the moment for OS/2 than there is for
Windows 95 and NT combined. Windows 95 is *way* to youg to be put in
any mission critical environment.

The last factor is interesting too however - in December OS/2
outsold Win95 by a factor of some 4-5. Win95 sold some 200K and
OS/2 sold 1 mill (in December alone). It seems there are some
users who find that Windows 95's lack of proper multitasking (if
you run Win16 apps) and lack of stability is making some people
try out OS/2 instead.

*IF* Borland wanted to create Delphi for OS/2 however, they would
have to work *a* *lot* harder than they did with C++ for OS/2 which
was (at version 1.0) a piece of junk.

---Terje

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


Quote
mabou...@embratel.net.br wrote:
>I may fall in a commom place, but Why support to only Micro$oft products ?

There are Delphi-compatible products coming out for OS/2 -- Speed
Pascal and/or Virtual Pascal (can't remember which is which or if I
even got the names right).

I think Borland's "cross-platform" strategy is likely more focused on
their Latte product.  It's only vapourware now, but as it's Java it
should target multiple operating systems.  It may even be hosted on
multiple OSs...

Contrary to other posts in this thread, I believe the development
tools available for OS/2 are generally _better_ than those available
solely for Windows (the Visual Age products come to mind).  The only
problem with them is that they tend to cost a lot, at least in terms
of the RAD tools you can get for Windows.

--------------------------------------------------
brent_byso...@mindlink.bc.ca
VB, Delphi & SQL Development
Vancouver, BC.
(604) 689-2616
-------------------------------------------------

Re:Why Delphi32 doesn't support OS/2 ?


On 30 Jan 1996, John Reynolds wrote:

Quote

> Apps drive the O/S.  There are many people who would rather use
> OS/2 than Windows (myself included).  But, being a developer, I
> can't justify sharpening skills in that direction when the market
> base is in Windows. However, I have turned down or not gone after
> contracts for OS/2 development because of the lack of rad tools
> (same with Mac).  If a good Rad tool like Delphi was available
> for these OS'es, I would be able to do that.

> John

John,
There will be a Delphi like Rad tool for os/2 shortly.  It is called
Speed Pascal.  I am not sure how they can get way with making it look
like a Delphi.  Plus, I don't think the speed pascal will have the data
base stuff.  
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