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Re: The Empire Strikes Back


2003-11-03 09:50:18 PM
delphi118
"Mike Terry" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

Yes, can someone please explain exactly what is being patented? I am at a
loss for how this patent effects i.e. and adins/plugins; but then I am a
software developer and not a patent lawyer. (g)

Web Pages that your the <object/>, <embed/>and <applet/>tags are affected
by the patent.
Although EOLAS went after MS, first, all companies that rely on plug-ins
using this method of calling plug-ins into a web browser can fall prey to
litigation.
See my other message where I put all relevant links into one msg.
-dennis
 
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

Quote
Web Pages that your the <object/>,
..but only if the <object>tag contains an "active" object,
is my understanding. The workarounds at macromedia
actually use <object>tags to avoid the patent probs.
--
JoeH
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"JoeH" <JoeH__at__hqters.com>writes
Quote
>Web Pages that your the <object/>,

..but only if the <object>tag contains an "active" object,
is my understanding. The workarounds at macromedia
actually use <object>tags to avoid the patent probs.
--
Oh, ok... This can be confusing since Java Applets are also affected and of
course are not ActiveX at all...
I think the main work-around at the moment is to actually use Javascript to
stream the plug-in into the browser once the page has loaded.
The Patent, itself, was essentially awarded for content loaded from an
"external source" which can be interacted with in the browser! How
ridiculous! How the hell can you get a patent for something that nebulous!
However the main point here is that the names of the tags themselves are not
the issue. We could make up an new tag name, but if the end result was that
it pulled interactive content into a web page when it loads, then it falls
under the patent.
Unbelievable.
Why doesn't MS just by this bastard out?
Macromedia is working on a more solid open source solution. I will be
applying for the beta program.
-dennis
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"Dennis Landi" <none[at]none.com>writes
Quote
"JoeH" <JoeH__at__hqters.com>writes
news:3fa65e88$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>>Web Pages that your the <object/>,
>
>..but only if the <object>tag contains an "active" object,
>is my understanding. The workarounds at macromedia
>actually use <object>tags to avoid the patent probs.
>--

www.macromedia.com/devnet/activecontent/articles/why_macromedia.html
Basically, Macromedia has put an intervening JS script file between the
browser and the "active" content. This makes the Javascript script the
"loading agent" not the web page....
Although this solution will definitely work for new web properties. The
patent enforcement will break all existing properties on the web loading
active content.
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"Dennis Landi" <none[at]none.com>writes
Quote
www.w3.org/2003/10/27-rogan.html


Great - another change in the IT world brought on by Lawyers
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

Mike Mormando <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
Dennis Landi writes:
>www.w3.org/2003/10/27-rogan.html
Even though Borland might not be here anymore without them, I still
think that software and business method patents are a detriment to
mankind as a whole!
Mike

Have you accounted for the incentive to create produced by patent laws? You said yourself Borland would be here without them.
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"Dennis Landi" <none[at]none.com>writes:
Quote
The Patent, itself, was essentially awarded for content loaded from an
"external source" which can be interacted with in the
browser! How
"external source", what does this do to role webservices plays?
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"Ben" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in
Quote
Have you accounted for the incentive to create produced by patent
laws? You said yourself Borland would be here without them.
patent laws on software slow down innovation.
--
Iman
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"Ben" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

"Dennis Landi" <none[at]none.com>writes:
>The Patent, itself, was essentially awarded for content loaded from an
>"external source" which can be interacted with in the
>browser! How

"external source", what does this do to role webservices plays?
none, we are talking about the browser here. any file external to the
webpage, pulled into the web page, On Load, is what is at issue.
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"Ben" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Have you accounted for the incentive to create produced by patent laws?
You said yourself Borland would be here without them.
What incentive to create is there in patent on "One-Click" technology?
What is the incentive to create in "A patent on reverse auctions"?
Even, I shudder to even think "A patent on 2 way design in an IDE"?
In a patent for a physical device, like a radio, I could come up with a
device that performed the same function, but improved it in some way, took
less power, stereo instead of monaural, and then get a patent of my own in
turn, then you could add pictures and the whole world could go down the
drain....but I digress.
How do I improve a reverse auction?
How 'bout One-Click? Make it "Instant on mouse-down" so you only need a
half-click to make it work?
Answer, ya can't. So the use of these ideas, no matter what their
implementation might be is locked to these companies for, what is it now,
20+ years?
I'm just not seeing your point.
Mike
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"Dennis Landi" <none[at]none.com>writes:
Quote

"Ben" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:3fa6ab5a$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>
>"Dennis Landi" <none[at]none.com>writes:
>>The Patent, itself, was essentially awarded for content loaded from an
>>"external source" which can be interacted with in the
>>browser! How
>
>"external source", what does this do to role webservices plays?

none, we are talking about the browser here. any file external to the
webpage, pulled into the web page, On Load, is what is at issue.


Isn't a web page that calls a webservice using an external file?
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

"Ben" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

"Dennis Landi" <none[at]none.com>writes:
>
>"Ben" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
>news:3fa6ab5a$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>>
>>"Dennis Landi" <none[at]none.com>writes:
>>>The Patent, itself, was essentially awarded for content loaded from an
>>>"external source" which can be interacted with in the
>>>browser! How
>>
>>"external source", what does this do to role webservices plays?
>
>none, we are talking about the browser here. any file external to the
>webpage, pulled into the web page, On Load, is what is at issue.
>
>
Isn't a web page that calls a webservice using an external file?
Read some of the links I provided.
There is a distinction between the webpage pulling in content and an "active
agent" already loaded into the web page pulling in content. Thusly, If I
have a Flash Application on the webpage calling web services and pulling in
XML, it is not the web page doing it since the Flash SWF originated
externally to it. What matters is how the _web_page_ loads the external
agent (eg. Flash SWF file); which is why Macromedia recommends calling a
script that then loads the Flash app. Apparently this simple machination
side-steps the patent, which seems pretty ridiculous; but I am just
reporting the news...
-dennis
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

Damn,
I was just about to get a patent on 2 way design in an IDE. :)
Since when can someone patent an Idea that is used by other companoies
already?
Heck I always thought it would be great to have A Spam Blocker - I wonder if
that patent exists yet???? :)
Lawrence
"Mike Mormando" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

"Ben" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:3fa6aa9b$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>Have you accounted for the incentive to create produced by patent laws?
You said yourself Borland would be here without them.

What incentive to create is there in patent on "One-Click" technology?
What is the incentive to create in "A patent on reverse auctions"?
Even, I shudder to even think "A patent on 2 way design in an IDE"?

In a patent for a physical device, like a radio, I could come up with a
device that performed the same function, but improved it in some way, took
less power, stereo instead of monaural, and then get a patent of my own in
turn, then you could add pictures and the whole world could go down the
drain....but I digress.

How do I improve a reverse auction?
How 'bout One-Click? Make it "Instant on mouse-down" so you only need a
half-click to make it work?

Answer, ya can't. So the use of these ideas, no matter what their
implementation might be is locked to these companies for, what is it now,
20+ years?

I'm just not seeing your point.
Mike


 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

Quote
I think Borland already has that patent. Seriously.
I doubt. Clarion did it long before Delphi - and in more real 2-way.
 

Re: The Empire Strikes Back

I just filed a patent for newsgroup posting.
Royalty fees for your posts may be sent to...
:)
--
JoeH