Board index » delphi » Re: Is it worth upgrading from Delphi 7 to Delphi 2005/2006?

2006-01-06 09:42:54 PM
delphi140
VCL components. Yes, it will make you more productive. The debug/release
stuff has been in VC++ ever since like version 4 or something. I have never
personally seen a need for it, and I have never really heard anyone else mention
it before. If your project is big enough that it is a pain to switch it
in real time, then you need a build tool anyway (there are opensource ones
too if you don't want to spend the $300). If it is not big enough to be
a pain, then you don't.
without source or compiled without debug info, all you are going to get is
the CPU view. This is not a Delphi issue. If the de{*word*81} doesn't have
the information to show, then it can not show it.
Turn optimization off
Turn stack frames on
Turn use debug dcus on
If the de{*word*81} doesn't break during the exception, then it is not occuring
in the code that you compiled with those settings (most likely anyway).
Ryan
 

Ryan McGinty writes:
on Borland's website.
I've found VC debug/release stuff extremely useful - since this is now
part of C++ Builder in Delphi 2006, I can not help wondering why it isn't
in Delphi?
its just a list of hex numbers. Delphi frequently dumps me with
nothing, leaving me unable to figure out where the fault occured.
--
Pete Goodwin
Cheesed off Kylix, C++ Builder V6 and Delphi 2005 and 2006 owner.
I can accept Delphi 2006 has bug fixes and new features but
why weren't at least the bug fixes put back in Delphi 2005?
 

Pete Goodwin writes:
but others may disagree), use NAnt, want, custom software, batch files,
or the bundled make utility for your release builds. Your pick. Doing a
build in the IDE for commercial, production software is IMHO insane. To
me it is just saying, "I don't really care about being able to reproduce
this build in the future."
Until Delphi gets full support for non-IDE tools (e.g., install
builders, stuff written in other languages not supported by the IDE,
etc.) it must remain this way. Saving the project config files in
version control is not enough to take care of your entire build
procedure.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
IB 6 versions prior to 6.0.1.6 are pre-release and may corrupt
your DBs! Open Edition users, get 6.0.1.6 from mers.com
 

of Delphi (this is what I did - bought Pro and StarTeam).
under VC to see what it does.
Ryan
 

use this forum to express your disdain, however I unclear about your
motivation. I suspect that you are as well; if you're not I would love to hear
what you actually want. If it is a refund for Delphi 2005, you're better off
not saying anything here but contacting Borland directly.
When I express my disatisfaction it is typically because: I want to provide
constructive feedback to affect future events; I hope that someone will
relate to my frustration; I am looking for consolation; or I am being a jerk
and deliberately provoking a reaction. I try not to be a jerk.
Despite some of my best efforts to hold onto past injustices, life always
seems to move forward. The sooner I let go of what I am hung up on, the
sooner I can move forward.
 

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] writes:
doing that at Delphi 5. At work I switched to VS 2003, simply because
the rest of the product (at the time) was C++ on a variety of platforms
(WIN32, PS2, Xbox and GameCube).
I gave up evangelising Delphi because nobody wanted to know. I still
get that reaction - "isn't Borland dead?".
I'm using Delphi 2006 at home to develop music software, an interest of
mine. It may become freeware or shareware, don't know as yet.
What I may do is switch the Delphi project in the IDE to full debug to
make life easier and for a release build simply do:
dcc32 <options><project>.
I'll have to set the DCU directory somewhere different otherwise I'll
overwrite the debug ones.
It's a pity I can not do this via the debug/release paradigm.
--
Pete Goodwin
Cheesed off Kylix, C++ Builder V6 and Delphi 2005 and 2006 owner.
I can accept Delphi 2006 has bug fixes and new features but
why weren't at least the bug fixes put back in Delphi 2005?
 

Kevin writes:
--
Pete Goodwin
Cheesed off Kylix, C++ Builder V6 and Delphi 2005 and 2006 owner.
I can accept Delphi 2006 has bug fixes and new features but
why weren't at least the bug fixes put back in Delphi 2005?
 

I don't doubt what you say. it is still insane IMHO, but I am sure it's
true.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Borland newsgroup denizen Sergio González has a new CD of
Irish music out, and it is good: tinyurl.com/7hgfr
 

Brian Moelk writes:
and see if there's any reaction to it.
I'd still like to see an answer to my SIG: "I can accept Delphi 2006
has bug fixes and new features but why weren't at least the bug fixes
put back in Delphi 2005?"
I suspect I won't get an answer and that it might happen again. In
which case I will be more cautious in future. I used to buy Delphi
without worrying too much about it is quality. Not any more.
--
Pete Goodwin
Cheesed off Kylix, C++ Builder V6 and Delphi 2005 and 2006 owner.
I can accept Delphi 2006 has bug fixes and new features but
why weren't at least the bug fixes put back in Delphi 2005?
 

Pete Goodwin writes:
Cheers,
Kevin.
 

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] writes:
for a while now and have been especially looking at FinalBuilder
given the good notices in here and elsewhere. However, I have to
say that /all/ of the Delphi dev companies that I had worked with
until my current one have never really used proper build tools
as such and have stuck to batch files (though not to invoke the
compiler or a make utility but only really to package up the various
disparate files related to the release) - the creation of the Delphi
exe itself was always straight from the IDE build with documented set
of Compiler and Linker settings to govern how the release exe should
be built - honestly!
I must also point out as well that all of these companies release
their shrink wrapped, commercial, production software this way...
BTW, I am definitely /not/ endorsing /anything/ here, just illustrating
how common that approach is, IME at any rate...
Now that I am at last in a position to do things my own way, I am trying
to do things just a little bit better :-)
 

Kevin writes:
--
Liz the Brit
Delphi things I have released: www.xcalibur.co.uk/DelphiThings
 

Pete Goodwin writes:
Starbase (i.e. before Borland bought it) had a special for Delphi
developers a few years back. It works nicely. I used to use VSS with
VSSConnexion but switched after I saw how good StarTeam was compared to
VSS.
BTW, the StarTeam Standard version is still worth it at the current
price I reckon (Borland brought the price down to a reasonable level- I
think it used to cost about $2000). Much better than the free
alternatives...
Cheers,
Kevin.
 

"Pete Goodwin" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Here's an interesting excercise:
Compile with all the debug info turned on.
(Make sure you either do a build all, or delete all the dcu's, your choice,
after changing the options so they take effect.)
Check the size of your exe.
Turn off all the debug info.
Rebuild. Check the size of your exe.
Should be about the same.
All the other options, optimization, etc, I keep the same between
debug and release, so they don't matter as much.
Most versions of Delphi have received their last update *after*
the release of the next version.
So I am wondering, when did you expect them to work on the update?
If it was before they released D2006, they would have had to put off D2006
to work on the update. Then, working on D2006 they would have found more
fixes and people would have still complained about the same thing.
Case in point. They put out update 3 before releasing D2006.
Essentially, they did exactly what you are asking for. Did they get any
credit for that?
Brad.
 

about Delphi 2005. IMO, developers are quite capable of making decisions
for themselves.
hear something regarding your specific QC entry?
IMO, it is unreasonable to expect that Borland will provide direct feedback
to every QC report that comes through. It is reasonable to expect that
Borland will periodically look at QC reports, assess it is priority,
severity, etc and make a judgement as to if their customers, as a whole, are
better served if they fix it or work on something else. I imagine this is
what they will do with your report.
in your signature line? Besides it is kind of a loaded question when you add
"I can accept Delphi 2006 has bug fixes and new features...". I mean come
on, would it be unacceptable if Delphi 2006 didn't have bug fixes or new
features? Clearly "acceptance" of positive things in Delphi 2006 are things
to be *e{*word*277}d* about. We should encourage and reward Borland for those
things.
The more constructive and direct question is: Will the bug fixes present in
Delphi 2006 will be put back into Delphi 2005? I suspect the answer to that
will be: "no". And some good reasons for it are: 1) Too much
money/time/effort for another QA cycle for Delphi 2005; 2) Some bug fixes
might be too hard to decouple from underlying design changes that occurred
when moving from D2005 to D2006; 3) There aren't enough customers still
"cheesed off" by Delphi 2005, most are happy with Delphi 2006 and want
Borland to continue moving forward.
I know that I don't want Borland to continue mucking around with Delphi 2005
at all. I want them to keep moving forward and support .NET 2.0, include
generics in Win32, fully support unicode, develop a 64-bit native compiler,
etc. Delphi 2005 is a done deal, write it off as a loss and move forward.
with anything. But I see that as a good thing for everyone as it keeps
Borland and the Delphi community on their toes. Borland must continue to
produce compelling releases to earn our business. The Delphi community
should be aware that Borland can make mistakes and can not simply purchase
everything Borland produces.
FWIW, I think most people in the Delphi community learned this lesson about
6 months after the release of Delphi 2005.