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Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?


2003-12-05 01:07:06 AM
delphi70
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:05:55 +0100, "Rolf Frei" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
Borland should
wakeup and begin to hear again to its customers.
What is it that customers are saying that you think Borland isn't
hearing?
Nick Hodges - TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Please always follow the newsgroup guidelines --
www.borland.com/newsgroups
 
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Nick Hodges (TeamB) writes:
Quote
>The problem is we keep hearing the same thing from Borland. "Delphi
>developers should get with it and convert to .Net" Well, NO!!!

I haven't heard this at all. Do you have a link to such a quote?
Proof positive that you're simply trolling in favor of Borland. He
provided a perfectly accurate quote and then paraphrased it down to
what it really meant and you're quoting only the paraphrased portion
and demanding a link to that version of the quote.
Absolutely amazing that a TeamB member would resort to trolling.
Will
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

"However .NET is clearly the direction of the Windows platform and will
be the most important focus for Delphi developers in the near term."
The problem is we keep hearing the same thing from Borland. "Delphi
developers should get with it and convert to .Net" Well, _NO_!!!
Borland, if you want to make money, give your customers what they
want. I want an SP now and a Delphi 8 VCL 32 sometime next year.
I will be a believer when the following questions are answered.
1) When will the SP for Delphi 7 be available (target month)?
2) When will the Delphi 8 Win32 be available (target Quarter)?
3) Can we expect 2 SPs going forward for the Delphi Product line?
4) Is dbExpress a long term technology? If yes, then why
hasn't Borland put the necessary resources toward it? Are
you going to put the resource toward it going forward?
5) Why is the source not available for Midas.dll and all the
dbExpress drivers? TClientDataSet and dbExpress drivers
have bugs and without the source we must rely solely on
your good will to fix them. After 16 months, you
haven't and there isn't much good will going around
lately!!!!!
Would you forward these questions to Simon and get real answers, not
politically correct ones. " . . there are still many more Win32
projects to be developed with Delphi for years to come . . "
What was that Wendy's commercial? Where's the beef?
PS - Let's get out of this pissing match and see if we can not get
some real answers and real solutions to everyones problems. I
see that as Win32 development. At least most of my user groups
agrees. Most seem to agree here too.
Nick Hodges (TeamB) writes:
Quote
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:49:30 -0500, Thomas Miller
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:


>The "end" is consistent support for
>Delphi win 32, and when .Net finally becomes the rage in 3 - 5 years,
>that too.


Borland has clearly stated that this is what they plan to do --

community.borland.com/article/0,1410,29951,00.html

Allow me to quote Simon --

"Borland certainly believes that there are still many more Win32
projects to be developed with Delphi for years to come and do plan to
support and update the Win32 Delphi technology in the future."

I believe that is pretty much what you were asking for, right?

So the way I see it isn't that you disagree with Borland's message,
it's just that you'd like to see that message more clearly stated
than in an open letter on the internet? How might Borland go about
putting out the message more clearly than that in order for you to say
that the message is clearly stated enough?


Nick Hodges - TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Please always follow the newsgroup guidelines --
www.borland.com/newsgroups
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork
www.bss-software.com
sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Nick Hodges (TeamB) writes:
Quote
I think that the above statements are quite clear and concise. What
about them leads you to have doubts about the future of Delphi?
Could it be... the absolute and total lack of any information
regarding Delphi's future? So they've said there are many Win32
applications yet to be built, but note that they never said *what*
they'd be built with. They go on to say that they "plan to update the
Delphi Win32 technology", but fail to commit to any specific timeframe
or even whether or not they'll even release a new version (8.0 or 9.0).
In other words, they've committed to doing nothing, and it is all up in
the air whether we'll see a patch or a new version (right now it is only
been promised that we'll see one and/or the other, but it is the fact
that they can not commit to that that is telling that there are problems
at Borland WRT Win32 Delphi).
Will
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:13:00 -0500, Thomas Miller
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote

The problem is we keep hearing the same thing from Borland. "Delphi
developers should get with it and convert to .Net" Well, _NO_!!!
I haven't heard this at all. Do you have a link to such a quote?
In fact, I think Borland is not saying this at all. The quotes I
posted show exactly the opposite.
Quote
Borland, if you want to make money, give your customers what they
want. I want an SP now and a Delphi 8 VCL 32 sometime next year.
This is where I get confused. Borland has said you will get these
things (or something like it). You won't get the patch "now" for
obvious reasons, but Borland has said you will. How "You will" get's
translated into "Borland isn't listening" is a mystery to me.
Quote
I will be a believer when the following questions are answered.
Those are all good questions. I don't know the answers. I would like to
know the answers as well.
You can forward them to Simon and Michael yourself, if you like.
Nick Hodges - TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Please always follow the newsgroup guidelines --
www.borland.com/newsgroups
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
A long time ago, I was a Power Builder user, and PB had a maintenance
agreement. For about a $1000 per year, they produced an SP per
quarter.

Before some of you say, "I should get an SP for free", don't worry,
Power Builder gave 1 SP to each customer free. So if the product
is on SP2 when you purchase, you got SP3 for free. You would not
get SP4, 5, or 6. They also released SPs after a new version was
shipping for the old version. At least one, but usually 2.
When was this? You could get the quarterly updates for PB3, 4, and 5 off
PowerSoft's ftp server. Also, it is my understanding that Sybase still
provides regular updates to both the current and previous versions of PB.
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

On 4 Dec 2003 10:10:24 -0700, "Will DeWitt Jr." <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
writes:
Quote
He
provided a perfectly accurate quote and then paraphrased it down to
what it really meant and you're quoting only the paraphrased portion
and demanding a link to that version of the quote.
I don't think he paraphrased it down to what it meant. I think he
paraphrased it down to something it didn't mean at all -- in fact, to
something exactly opposite of what it means.
Quote
Absolutely amazing that a TeamB member would resort to trolling.
Hey, Will, ease up, okay? These kinds of comments are out of line and
totally unnecessary.
Nick Hodges - TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Please always follow the newsgroup guidelines --
www.borland.com/newsgroups
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

On 4 Dec 2003 10:14:52 -0700, "Will DeWitt Jr." <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
writes:
Quote
Could it be... the absolute and total lack of any information
regarding Delphi's future?
See, I don't understand -- I just gave you two quotes that are quite
clear about Delphi's future.
Borland is about to release a brand new version of Delphi. Borland
has clearly stated that Win32 development will continue. I am baffled
as to how you can conclude that there is an "absolute and total" lack
of information.
Nick Hodges - TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Please always follow the newsgroup guidelines --
www.borland.com/newsgroups
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Kevin writes:
Quote
cake. However, I'd like them to at least say that there will be
a new major version of Delphi for Win32 in 2004. That would be
something concrete. Most of us are looking for them to say this. Am
I right, Will?
You are right. =)
Will
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Nick Hodges (TeamB) writes:
Quote
Great post, thanks. I agree with all of it. I think more information
is better, and once the pressure of getting Delphi 8 for .Net out the door,
I'll bet we'll be hearing more. We've heard some things pretty
clearly (certainly a lot more than " absolute and total lack of any
information"), but we could stand to hear more.
I wouldn't say "a lot more", I would say "barely more". But these are
opinions of course. You clearly intepret what Borland has said in a
satisfactory manner for yourself, while I see a very large gap where a
timeline should have been (even if it was subject to change, it's
better than leaving the future of Delphi/Win32 in doubt).
But it is all semantics and opinion, and I don't see a lot of point in
debating it.
Will
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Quote
Please don't call people names.
Yes, please, do not call Hitler a scoundrel.
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
"However .NET is clearly the direction of the Windows platform and will
be the most important focus for Delphi developers in the near term."

The problem is we keep hearing the same thing from Borland. "Delphi
developers should get with it and convert to .Net" Well, _NO_!!!
It does seem this way although I don't believe they've intended this
message to be conveyed. The problem is that they haven't denied this
either by their actions (more later). I see the Delphi for .NET release
as a message to the community that "yes, Delphi is moving into the
future- you can feel confident that we are not ignoring the new
technology." If Borland hadn't brought it out then the cries about
"delphi is dead" would certainly have seemed valid. However, I think we
can safely say that Delphi has just been renewed again- new life has
been breathed into it (as long as it isn't a buggy release like
C#Builder!). IMO, Delphi 8 for .NET is the most significant release of
Delphi since Delphi 2/3 (the 32-bit technology was only really solid and
fully fledged in 3).
That said, Borland really does need to get the message out about exactly
what they're going to produce for the Win32 update. I'd say that
they need to explain this at least a month after Delphi for .NET ships.
Borland, could you please make some commitment of a date for the open
letter regarding this? That would make me feel a whole lot better. In
that way it shouldn't dampen the .NET enthusiasm and affect the sales
(because providing this information before the .NET product is shipping
may cause some more people to wait for the Win32 release- I understand
the concern there). Tom, your points below are vital- Borland does need
to let us know about these things in that open letter:
Quote
1) When will the SP for Delphi 7 be available (target month)?
I'd settle for a target quarter here.
Quote
2) When will the Delphi 8 Win32 be available (target Quarter)?
I agree that this should be a target quarter.
Personally, I am not against (1) and (2) in one release. However, what
I'm hoping is that the Win32 release will also include the .NET product.
In addition, the Win32 update should be a free-of-charge (or media and
shipping cost only) upgrade to all the .NET customers. Why do I feel
that Borland should deliver this?? Because they promised it initially.
In the original open letter (that they later retracted) they said that
the new release would have both Win32 and .NET capability. To me it
makes logical sense that these should be a single product and not two
different SKUs. Much like Kylix and Delphi 7 belonged together, Delphi
8 for .NET and Delphi 8 for Win32 belong together as well (Kylix 4
should be in the same box too but I will accept a delay on that!)
Cheers,
Kevin.
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 13:26:05 -0600, Kevin <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
writes:
Quote
If Borland hadn't brought it out then the cries about
"delphi is dead" would certainly have seemed valid.
Jeez, no kidding. An excellent point.
Quote
That said, Borland really does need to get the message out about exactly
what they're going to produce for the Win32 update.
Agreed and excellently put.
Nick Hodges - TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Please always follow the newsgroup guidelines --
www.borland.com/newsgroups
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Nick Hodges (TeamB) writes:
Quote
See, I don't understand -- I just gave you two quotes that are quite
clear about Delphi's future.

Borland is about to release a brand new version of Delphi. Borland
has clearly stated that Win32 development will continue. I am baffled
as to how you can conclude that there is an "absolute and total" lack
of information.
Will is right to some extent. He may be a bit extreme in saying
"'absolute and total' lack of information." However, he is correct in
his implication that the wording is _VERY_ ambiguous. Personally, I
don't think Delphi users would hold Borland to an exact deadline if they
announced it (e.g. it could slip a quarter), but if Borland would just
say in the first half of 2004 they will deliver a service pack for Win32
a lot of people would be much happier. If they then went on to make a
commitment about when Delphi 8 (or whatever it will be called) for Win32
will be delivered that would be icing on the cake. However, I would
like them to at least say that there will be a new major version of
Delphi for Win32 in 2004. That would be something concrete. Most of us
are looking for them to say this. Am I right, Will?
Cheers,
Kevin.
 

Re: Anyone Else Waiting for Delphi 8 for Win32?

Kevin --
Great post, thanks. I agree with all of it. I think more information
is better, and once the pressure of getting Delphi 8 for .Net out the door,
I'll bet we'll be hearing more. We've heard some things pretty
clearly (certainly a lot more than " absolute and total lack of any
information"), but we could stand to hear more.
I appreciate your comments.
Nick Hodges - TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Please always follow the newsgroup guidelines --
www.borland.com/newsgroups