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Re: Update 3 - The performance update


2005-05-11 04:53:58 AM
delphi266
Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
I see absolutely no difference, because to what extent something is
"usable" or not has to be subjective, it cannot be objective.
In English, "Delphi 2005 is unusable" without any further qualification or
context is an *objective* statement of fact, not a personal opinion or
experience. In a given conversation, certain qualifications may be implied
by the context, but in written communication more precision is almost always
called for because context is much harder to maintain.
Quote
The same with "The weather is nice" and "I find the weather to be
nice". no difference.
The weather in northern Europe is unliveable.
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
- Philip K.{*word*106}
 
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote

I think the statement "Foo is unusable" has to be subjective,
regardless. Why? Because it is no problem to prove the opposite, that
it is it is usable, in any case, ergo it is always subjective.
Except some of those claiming it to be unusable explicitly *rejected* any
claims by others of usability and actually called others liars. It is up to
the speaker to make themselves clear, not the listener to guess the context.
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
"Democracy, without the guarantee of liberty, is merely a method of
selecting tyrants." - Alan Nitikman
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Wayne Niddery [TeamB] writes:
Quote
The weather in northern Europe is unliveable.
;-)
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Quote
And of course, it is /really/ easy to say exactly what you mean -- i.e.
"Delphi 2005 was unusable for me", rather than type "Delphi 2005 is
unusaable. Those extra six characters aren't going to kill anyone, and
of course, they make an unassailable statement.
I'm just saying that people speak (and write) conversationally, and
conversational speech is often imperfect -- particularly when one is
frustrated. Have you not ever been frustrated and said something
like, "xyz don't work worth a damn" even if you know somebody else is
using it?
Quote
Ahh, but you can not know that. There are some here who assert the very
thing you are saying that they /don't/ assert.
Well, there probably are people who overstate their case. I suppose
you are correct there. Yet, I think that there are some problems,
like slowness that, well, I do think virtually everybody who uses
D2005 for significant projects must see. No? Sure, some people see
it more than others, and some people are more aggravated by it than
others. Some people may find it acceptable. But I can not imagine
anybody not seeing it to at least some degree if they use the product
significantly. I realize that there are differences among
configurations, but slowness at some operations does seem to be pretty
universal (as far as I know, I suppose...)
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Paul Dolen writes:
Quote
I'm just saying that people speak (and write) conversationally, and
conversational speech is often imperfect -- particularly when one is
frustrated.
Indeed, and I'd think that one would welcome clarification when
imprecision is present.
Quote
Well, there probably are people who overstate their case.
Uhm, yeah. ;-) In fact, that is the whole point.
Quote
Yet, I think that there are some problems,
like slowness that, well, I do think virtually everybody who uses
D2005 for significant projects must see. No?
I can not speak for everyone, but D2005 isn't as fast as I would like, no.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
"Delphi 2005 is unusable" is always objectively wrong, ergo it is a
subjective expression based on personal feelings, personal experience
and a personal view, not necessarily objective facts. Nothing at all
can be objectively unusable.
That simply doesn't follow. If something is always objectively wrong,
then it is a false statement, and subjectivity /can't/ enter into it.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
Give me an example of an objectively unusable thing, and I will agree
with you. No such example exists though, I believe.
??? You are arguing a negative here, which can not be done, really.
A fish is unusable as a means of flying through space.
And I note that you ignored Wayne's wonderful counter example about
Norweigan weather.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
that it is impossible for D2005 to be
unusable,
It's not impossible for D2005 to be unusable. If it wouldn't start at
all when you click on the EXE, then it would be unusable.
Quote
is it so hard to agree on that the use of "unusable" always
has to be subjective, and always has to be interpreted as such?
It can be subjective /when applied to the speaker alone/. In other
words, I can say
"I find D2005 unusable".
but once again, to the original point, this statement
"D2005 is unusable"
is a false statement.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] writes:
Quote
The primary purpose is to provide peer support.
Pity that the current TeamB members don't contribute big deal to that
purpose. I find much more useful the posts by people such as Ingvar
Nilsen, Will DeWitt, Eric Grange and others that I can not remember,
people that would be great TeamB members (though I must admit that they
don't have the art of brown-nosing between their abilities).
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Ingvar I admire your patience to play the TeamB game. <g>
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
Which is subjective, looked at from a space traveller's view.
It seems to me that your definition of 'subjective' is different than
what is normally used in common parlance.
Quote
I am still waiting for an example on an unusable thing, objectively
seen
I don't know that anything is truly unusable. There are things that
are unusable for specific purposes, of course, and that is what is
being discussed here. I am not sure that I have ever claimed that
something is objectively unusable.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
I checked my dictionary, and it does not give any hits
on "unliveable" <g>
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Alvaro GP writes:
Quote
(though I must admit that they
don't have the art of brown-nosing between their abilities).
What a pile of horse manure.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Wayne Niddery [TeamB] writes:
Quote
In English, "Delphi 2005 is unusable" without any further
qualification or context is an *objective* statement of fact, not a
personal opinion or experience.
"Delphi 2005 is unusable" is always objectively wrong, ergo it is a
subjective expression based on personal feelings, personal experience
and a personal view, not necessarily objective facts. Nothing at all can
be objectively unusable.
I am not sure, but I do not think this is different from Norwegian.
Give me an example of an objectively unusable thing, and I will agree
with you. No such example exists though, I believe.
I will almost certainly be able to claim it is usable, for me, in a
convincing way. Then your statement will be subjective, not objective.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
www.ingvarius.com
 

Re: Update 3 - The performance update

Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote
It is almost, yes -
unusable! <g>
Be careful, you must say "*I find it* almost unusable!" <g>