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Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!


2005-06-21 07:13:13 PM
delphi265
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] writes:
Quote
And for me please.
I think Max was pointing out positive things. There was some rambling
in the article, but I like this quote:
Quote
I found myself putting one of my feet on the .NET developer
bandwagon, but still keeping another foot on the hi-mileage,
but the ever faithful Win32 API jalopy.
So, in the scenarios of a) Win32 dying off, b) .Net going away or c)
both continuing to be a going concern, which development environment
(and class library) gives me the most flexibility with the least pain?
Source code compatibility and more interoperability options than you
can shake a stick at? Looong history of smooth migration between
versions and even platforms? Non case sensitive? (Sorry, couldn't
resist)
I think the Developer Relations guys and TeamB already know all these
things, but thanks for the link.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
 
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

At 13:13:13, 21.06.2005, Bruce McGee writes:
Quote
So, in the scenarios of a) Win32 dying off, b) .Net going away or c)
both continuing to be a going concern, which development environment
(and class library) gives me the most flexibility with the least pain?
Delphi. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die."
-- Joe Louis.
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

"Abdullah Kauchali" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Max writes:
>
www.simventions.com/gustavson/2005/06/customer-interest-needs-net-win32.html

Yeah Mr Kaster, Mr Intersimone ... did you get that? ('Coz I sure as
hell didn't!) <g>
Its quite simple.
After bemoaning the fact the C++ compiler was dropped out of the VCL
tool-set, our c++ brethren lobbied Borland to get it put back in. At the
time of their lobbying I pointed suggested to them that it was kind of
pointless asking for a native C++ compiler, since if they got one back; they
would discover that what the really needed was a native 64-bit compiler.
At the time I asked them to support the 64-bit lobby, but they were too
fixated on getting their 32-bit compiler back. Now that they have it, they
realize the what they really need is a 64-bit version...
Here's one of my past posts to the C++ crowd:
groups-beta.google.com/group/borland.public.cppbuilder.non-technical/browse_frm/thread/2e9d2353afaf99f9/f72af89b8dc43e36
and another:
groups-beta.google.com/group/borland.public.cppbuilder.non-technical/browse_thread/thread/2bb8a64159c6199a/cd586d4403798e11
-- d
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Check out the Delphi Community Blog Aggregator
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Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Like duh, the O.S. does not suport .NET, so until it does it is pointless to
critisize .NET.
When the O.S. does support .NET, Win32 apps are going to appear big,
bloated, and hard to install. That is the point behind .NET. No one is
asking for .NET apps now because they have to install the .NET framework,
making .NET apps look big, bloated, and hard to install.
-- Larry Maturo
"Max" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Larry Maturo writes:
Quote
When the O.S. does support .NET, Win32 apps are going to appear big,
bloated, and hard to install.
Hmmm.... This implies that they don't already.
-Craig, who made the mistake of trying to view a PDF this morning.
You'd think that having Adobe's reader installed on your system would
make this easier, but no, it is only an invitation to trouble.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
IB 6 versions prior to 6.0.1.6 are pre-release and may corrupt
your DBs! Open Edition users, get 6.0.1.6 from mers.com
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Hi Craig,
Yes, I have had my share of problems with Adobe's reader to. The latest deal
is that they are going to drop support for eBooks, so if you made the
mistake I did of buying eBooks from them, you can only upgrade to 7.0. Past
that your eBooks will no longer work. Very nice of them.
-- Larry
"Craig Stuntz [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM [a.k.a. acm.org]>wrote
in message news:42b832a3$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
Quote
Larry Maturo writes:

>When the O.S. does support .NET, Win32 apps are going to appear big,
>bloated, and hard to install.

Hmmm.... This implies that they don't already.

-Craig, who made the mistake of trying to view a PDF this morning.
You'd think that having Adobe's reader installed on your system would
make this easier, but no, it is only an invitation to trouble.

--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
IB 6 versions prior to 6.0.1.6 are pre-release and may corrupt
your DBs! Open Edition users, get 6.0.1.6 from mers.com
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] writes:
Quote
-Craig, who made the mistake of trying to view a PDF this morning.
You'd think that having Adobe's reader installed on your system would
make this easier, but no, it is only an invitation to trouble.
A very good hint is to move all the files away from its "plugin"
folder, keeping onlyEWH32.api, printme.api, and search.api. Adobe
Reader, gets, much, much, better then.
--
Leonel
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Leonel writes:
Quote
A very good hint is to move all the files away from its "plugin"
folder, keeping onlyEWH32.api, printme.api, and search.api. Adobe
Reader, gets, much, much, better then.
Hmmm... Seems out of date for 7. I tried this but keeping annots.api
since we use annotation from time to time, but annots.api fails to
load. Might be dependent on some other package, but a PE viewer doesn't
reveal what it might be.
-Craig
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Please read and follow Borland's rules for the user of their
news server: info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Might be dependent on some other package, but a PE viewer doesn't
reveal what it might be.
With all plugins loaded, dependencies are listed on the "About Plugins"
screen. It says, on my system, for the annotation plugin, the following:
Plug-ins required for loading: EScript, Acroform, Internet Access, and
Weblink
Plug-ins required for full functionality: SendMail and Multimedia
Maybe it won't get that better on your system.
--
Leonel
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Larry,
Quote
When the O.S. does support .NET, Win32 apps are going to appear big,
bloated, and hard to install. That is the point behind .NET. No one is
asking for .NET apps now because they have to install the .NET framework,
making .NET apps look big, bloated, and hard to install.
LOL. More .NET silliness.
You mean .NET apps are going to fit on floppy disks and install without
installation programs? No registry set-up, no administrative users need to
be
involved, etc.? We can download them from the internet and they install and
run silently without security concerns like Java? Databases work magically
without any rights, configuration, or set-up?
What makes .EXEs so big today. You think a 20MB .EXE is 20MB of
compiled x86 code? More like 4MB of code and 16MB of resources.
Do you think bitmaps, graphics, strings, dialogs, etc. are going away in
a .NET app? They are on the OS to start with? Sorry...
In any case, you need a CD, installation program, and administrative rights
to install it whether Win32 or .NET. That is a trip by the IT department.
Whether it takes 5 minutes or 10 minutes to install (if it was any smaller),
I don't see the difference when it takes three days for IT to get around
to installing it anyway.
ASP.NET, different story.
Thanks,
Brett
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

At 23:49:57, 21.06.2005, Brett Watters writes:
Quote
Larry,

>When the O.S. does support .NET, Win32 apps are going to appear big,
>bloated, and hard to install. That is the point behind .NET. No one
>is asking for .NET apps now because they have to install the .NET
>framework, making .NET apps look big, bloated, and hard to install.

LOL. More .NET silliness.

You mean .NET apps are going to fit on floppy disks and install without
installation programs?
Some already do, as long as .NET is already installed (well, floppies are
probably too expensive and slow for these times, and not everyone has a
floppy drive anymore, but that was not the point). .NET promotes
so-called XCOPY deployment, meaning you copy everything to one directory,
and it is set up.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare.
Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
-- Robert Wilensky
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Hi Leonel,
Thank you!
-- Larry
"Leonel" <togniolli.@.gmail.com>writes
Quote
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] writes:

>-Craig, who made the mistake of trying to view a PDF this morning.
>You'd think that having Adobe's reader installed on your system would
>make this easier, but no, it is only an invitation to trouble.

A very good hint is to move all the files away from its "plugin"
folder, keeping onlyEWH32.api, printme.api, and search.api. Adobe
Reader, gets, much, much, better then.

--
Leonel
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Hi Brett,
You writes:
Quote
You mean .NET apps are going to fit on floppy disks and install without
installation programs? No registry set-up, no administrative users need to
be
involved, etc.? We can download them from the internet and they install
and
run silently without security concerns like Java? Databases work magically
without any rights, configuration, or set-up?
More so than with Win332 apps. As Rudy says, you can do XCopy
deployment, so they will be easier to install, and some would fit on a
floopy, but that isn't the point. The point is that more of the library
routines you need will be in the O.S. and there won't be any dlls,
so no dll hell. Look at the number of items in the .NET library
today. That number is just going to increase over time the way
the Java library has increased over time. Note also that
the Java Library will neve be part of Windows, but the .Net
library will.
You writes:
What makes .EXEs so big today. You think a 20MB .EXE is 20MB of
Quote
compiled x86 code? More like 4MB of code and 16MB of resources.
Do you think bitmaps, graphics, strings, dialogs, etc. are going away in
a .NET app? They are on the OS to start with? Sorry...
Certainly .NET won't affect resources, but then it won't be any worse
than Win32.
You writes:
Quote
In any case, you need a CD, installation program, and administrative
rights
to install it whether Win32 or .NET. That is a trip by the IT department.
Whether it takes 5 minutes or 10 minutes to install (if it was any
smaller),
I don't see the difference when it takes three days for IT to get around
to installing it anyway.
If the code is all managed code, then there will a lot less of a security
problem
than with a Win32 app. Again, that is assumming that all of .NET is part
of the O.S. Even MS doesn't know when that will happen, so there isn't
a near future pay off in .NET, but give it time. Which was the point of
my original posting. You can not judge what .NET is going to be like in the
future based soley on what it is like today, nor can you predict the exact
tradeoffs between Win32 and .NET in the future.
-- Larry Maturo
"Brett Watters" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Larry,

>When the O.S. does support .NET, Win32 apps are going to appear big,
>bloated, and hard to install. That is the point behind .NET. No one is
>asking for .NET apps now because they have to install the .NET framework,
>making .NET apps look big, bloated, and hard to install.

LOL. More .NET silliness.

You mean .NET apps are going to fit on floppy disks and install without
installation programs? No registry set-up, no administrative users need to
be
involved, etc.? We can download them from the internet and they install
and
run silently without security concerns like Java? Databases work magically
without any rights, configuration, or set-up?

What makes .EXEs so big today. You think a 20MB .EXE is 20MB of
compiled x86 code? More like 4MB of code and 16MB of resources.
Do you think bitmaps, graphics, strings, dialogs, etc. are going away in
a .NET app? They are on the OS to start with? Sorry...

In any case, you need a CD, installation program, and administrative
rights
to install it whether Win32 or .NET. That is a trip by the IT department.
Whether it takes 5 minutes or 10 minutes to install (if it was any
smaller),
I don't see the difference when it takes three days for IT to get around
to installing it anyway.

ASP.NET, different story.

Thanks,

Brett


 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Quote
.NET promotes
so-called XCOPY deployment, meaning you copy everything to one directory,
and it is set up.
And native code prohibits it?
Kostya
 

Re: Please read Mr. Kaster, Mr. Intersimone, TeamB members and the rest of all .Net friends !!!

Ralf Mimoun writes:
Quote
You wasted your time reading old arguments and opinions again.
On vacation no less ;)
The more fool me!
I keep hoping for some new ammo. Every once in a while, I get some.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com