Board index » delphi » Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error


2007-03-20 04:36:04 AM
delphi211
Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote
AutoCAD from Autodesk is probably the biggest vendor I can point to in
this market, it is significantly cheaper to purchase, say, 40% of the
number of users I have in licenses as concurrent user licenses, because
I'll *never* have more than 40% of my engineers here at work at the same
time, not in meetings, not out in the field, not called in sick,
actually ready to use AutoCAD, not playing around in email, surfing the
web, etc.
Apples and oranges. AutoCAD makes an end-user product. Of course you
can't distribute copies of it past your license count. We're talking
about developer components that are compiled into *my* application and
they've imposed an artificial limit on how many of *my* customers can
connect to *my* product.
--
Kent Briggs, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Briggs Softworks, www.briggsoft.com
 
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
If you want to build a broadly used website, then we ask that you pay
for the Enterprise license to receive that ability.
At $2000, I can not afford it. How much of that is getting kicked back to
Atozed?
--
Kent Briggs, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Briggs Softworks, www.briggsoft.com
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

There's no description anywhere that Pro version is shipping with a
crippled version of IW. Where does it say the Pro version has 5 user
restriction?
Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote
Kent Briggs writes:

>Brion L. Webster writes:
>
>Apples and oranges. AutoCAD makes an end-user product. Of course you
>can't distribute copies of it past your license count. We're talking
>about developer components that are compiled into my application and
>they've imposed an artificial limit on how many of my customers can
>connect to my product.

I thought you were arguing that concurrent user licensing was
inappropriate, and I tried to make allowances that your market may be
very different than mine.

I (me, myself, not connected to AtoZed or CodeGear) don't believe
there's much difference in a "5 concurrent user" run-time license or a 1
user run-time license or a 1 server, unlimited user run-time license. I
abhor run-time licenses, period. But Interbase seems to sell well
enough for CodeGear to continue, and as far as I know, they only sell
with per-deployment licenses. I am pretty sure I have seen components for
sale with concurrent user licenses as well, maybe ASTA, not sure.

I can see a number of places where a small, concurrent user system would
help me for *internal* deployments. Maybe even a lightly trafficed
external area. But I confess I don't see why you seem to be so angry
about it. Delphi 7, BDS 2005, BDS 2006 came with Intraweb Page Mode in
Pro, no Application Mode at all. Delphi 2007 Pro comes with a 5 user
concurrent version of Application Mode Intraweb. it is still not the
full Application Mode from Enterprise, but it is more than you had
before, for the same price.

 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Hadi Hariri writes:
Quote
Again, I will re-iterate my example: OnTime. that is a developer product
and it restricts *your* customers on posting issues about *your*
software. MS SQL Server: you integrate it with *your* products and if
*your* customers don't purchase licenses, then they cannot connect to
*your* software.
And I will be sure to never use those. Were they included in my Delphi IDE
that I used shelled out several hundred dollars for?
--
Kent Briggs, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Briggs Softworks, www.briggsoft.com
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Sig writes:

>There's no description anywhere that Pro version is shipping with a
>crippled version of IW. Where does it say the Pro version has 5 user
>restriction?

The Feature Matrix.

www.codegear.com/delphi

Is it a surprise that the Pro has less functionality than the
Enterprise?

Are you aware that the Pro has /more/ functionality that it did in
BDS2006?



Still the description doesn't say IW is limited to 5 users. Where can I
find that?
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Quote
At $2000, I can not afford it. How much of that is getting kicked back
to Atozed?
That is irrelevant and beside the point.
--
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Kent Briggs writes:
Quote
Brion L. Webster writes:

>AutoCAD from Autodesk is probably the biggest vendor I can point to
>in this market, it is significantly cheaper to purchase, say, 40%
>of the number of users I have in licenses as concurrent user
>licenses, because I will never have more than 40% of my engineers
>here at work at the same time, not in meetings, not out in the
>field, not called in sick, actually ready to use AutoCAD, not
>playing around in email, surfing the web, etc.

Apples and oranges. AutoCAD makes an end-user product. Of course you
can't distribute copies of it past your license count. We're talking
about developer components that are compiled into my application and
they've imposed an artificial limit on how many of my customers can
connect to my product.
Again, I will re-iterate my example: OnTime. that is a developer product
and it restricts *your* customers on posting issues about *your*
software. MS SQL Server: you integrate it with *your* products and if
*your* customers don't purchase licenses, then they cannot connect to
*your* software. Sure, you have a choice, use Firebird. You have the
same choice here. You can either use the software as is or if you're
very successful and you have many customers that want to use it, then
you can think about the investment into the Enterprise edition.
--
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Sig writes:

>Still the description doesn't say IW is limited to 5 users. Where can
>I find that?

Did you check the Feature Matrix? Doesn't it distinguish between
Enterprise and Pro?


Nick, if you interpreting everything from the feature matrix page as you
did earlier with Turbo Pro than I can't argue. The description is very
vague and it is very hard to figure out what's the difference. This is
what's written on the feature matrix web page.
Pro:
Delphi 2007 for Win32 Professional is for individuals or departments who
want Delphi’s proven visual Rapid Application Development (RAD) approach
for Win32 development with support for Windows Vista?and AJAX
techniques for building interactive web pages. The Professional also
includes drivers for connecting to Interbase and MySQL 4.1/5.X.
Enterprise:
Delphi 2007 for Win32 Enterprise is for enterprise development
organizations that need AJAX support for more complex web applications
and support for enterprise database connectivity. Enterprise includes
all the features of Professional plus support for Enterprise SQL
Databases (Oracle 10g, MS SQL Server 2000/2005, Informix 9x, IBM DB2
8.x, Sybase 12.5) and interactive web applications with AJAX support.
Enterprise also includes enhanced features for the Together?Visual
Modeling Platform including new diagrams (Sequence, Collaboration,
Deployment, Use Case, Activity, and Component diagrams), design Patterns
support, XMI 1.1 Import/Export, documentation generation, and audits and
metrics.
I can't see any restrictions there. One would suppose once you buy a
product everything you can see on the component pallet should work.
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Kent Briggs writes:
Quote
How much of that is getting kicked back to Atozed?
That's a private transaction between the two companies.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Kent Briggs writes:
Quote
Brion L. Webster writes:

Apples and oranges. AutoCAD makes an end-user product. Of course you can't
distribute copies of it past your license count. We're talking about
developer components that are compiled into my application and they've
imposed an artificial limit on how many of my customers can connect to my
product.
I thought you were arguing that concurrent user licensing was
inappropriate, and I tried to make allowances that your market may be very
different than mine.
I (me, myself, not connected to AtoZed or CodeGear) don't believe there's
much difference in a "5 concurrent user" run-time license or a 1 user
run-time license or a 1 server, unlimited user run-time license. I abhor
run-time licenses, period. But Interbase seems to sell well enough for
CodeGear to continue, and as far as I know, they only sell with
per-deployment licenses. I am pretty sure I have seen components for sale
with concurrent user licenses as well, maybe ASTA, not sure.
I can see a number of places where a small, concurrent user system would
help me for *internal* deployments. Maybe even a lightly trafficed
external area. But I confess I don't see why you seem to be so angry
about it. Delphi 7, BDS 2005, BDS 2006 came with Intraweb Page Mode in
Pro, no Application Mode at all. Delphi 2007 Pro comes with a 5 user
concurrent version of Application Mode Intraweb. it is still not the full
Application Mode from Enterprise, but it is more than you had before, for
the same price.
--
-Brion
There's no such thing as 'one, true way;'
- Mercedes Lackey
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote
It feels weird to be arguing *for* CodeGear on something.

Professional has *always* come with a reduced feature set of Intraweb,
ever since it started including Intraweb. Why is this now a problem?
The feature set is *less* reduced now than it used to be. What am I
missing? Is it because I am an Architect level customer?

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I am just honestly confused why
the response on this one issue is so strong. I would be irked about the
docs not integrating more than the 5 concurrent user limit on the *new*
Application Mode functionality in Pro.

Database servers have always been restricted to a certain number of
users but you always have a clear description how many concurrent user
licenses cost what. In this case IntraWeb stuff might be new for many
users so they don't have clear understanding what it is.
Personally I was never interested in Intraweb until CG announced AJAX
support.
Maybe it looks as a stupid question for you however some people consider
buying a product based on these features and they want to know exactly
what's inside the box.
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote
Enterprise has:
NEW! VCL for the Web - complete WYSIWYG RAD Web application
development with AJAX using ISAPI for IIS and DSO for Apache, including SSL

Professional has:
NEW! VCL for the Web ?application mode for standalone servers with
maximum of five connections

Note the "*maximum* of *five* connections". I will agree it is buried, but
it's there.

All right, my bad, I missed it.
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Sig writes:
Quote
There's no description anywhere that Pro version is shipping with a
crippled version of IW. Where does it say the Pro version has 5 user
restriction?
The Feature Matrix.
www.codegear.com/delphi
Is it a surprise that the Pro has less functionality than the
Enterprise?
Are you aware that the Pro has /more/ functionality that it did in
BDS2006?
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Sig writes:
Quote
Still the description doesn't say IW is limited to 5 users. Where can
I find that?
Did you check the Feature Matrix? Doesn't it distinguish between
Enterprise and Pro?
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: VCL for the Web not licensed error

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Sig writes:

>There's no description anywhere that Pro version is shipping with a
>crippled version of IW. Where does it say the Pro version has 5 user
>restriction?

The Feature Matrix.

www.codegear.com/delphi

Is it a surprise that the Pro has less functionality than the
Enterprise?

Are you aware that the Pro has more functionality that it did in
BDS2006?
It feels weird to be arguing *for* CodeGear on something.
Professional has *always* come with a reduced feature set of Intraweb,
ever since it started including Intraweb. Why is this now a problem? The
feature set is *less* reduced now than it used to be. What am I missing?
Is it because I am an Architect level customer?
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I am just honestly confused why the
response on this one issue is so strong. I would be irked about the docs not
integrating more than the 5 concurrent user limit on the *new* Application
Mode functionality in Pro.
--
-Brion
There's no such thing as 'one, true way;'
- Mercedes Lackey