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pascal programming language

Whatever happened to Pascal Programming Langugage?  I have been studying
programming languages and I think Pascal is the most effective programming
language for a company to use.  I would like to visit a company that uses
Pascal and see what their system has to offer.  I work for a leading Mail
Catalog company and I think they would be very happy to hear more about
Pascal.  You can talk to me at mefin...@mhtc.net.  I'd like to hear from
you, soon.
 

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
> Whatever happened to Pascal Programming Langugage?  I have been studying
> programming languages and I think Pascal is the most effective programming
> language for a company to use.  I would like to visit a company that uses
> Pascal and see what their system has to offer.  I work for a leading Mail
> Catalog company and I think they would be very happy to hear more about
> Pascal.  You can talk to me at mefin...@mhtc.net.  I'd like to hear from
> you, soon.

   It has much to do with business and market forces: most businesses
feel they need programming environments (extensibility, portability,
cross-platform parity, etc.) which Pascal doesn't and will never support.  
Most companies have enormous capital invested in their enterprise
applications, which are mostly developed in older languages such as
ForTran, COBOL, PL/1, and more recently C/C++.  All such languages
provided considerably more portability than Pascal ever has, and their
clumsy, archaic, and costly development environments (compared to the
TP/BP IDE) don't matter to the decision makers.
   Pascal was developed as _teaching_ language...and little more.  It
originally had no real file I/o or any system interfaces, and lacked
important "business" features such as string handling and support
libraries.  Thus, Pascal was never regarded as a a serious programming
languages for business, and until Borland created Turbo Pascal, is was
generally restricted to academic usage.
   TP changed that, of course, but mostly only for hobbyists and
independent PC programmers.  As TP grew, it became a serious programming
language for many profession programmers, but only for their private and
individual use - their employers still won't allow enterprise
applications to be developed in it.  This is my personal case, and
although I use TP/BP for many work-related utilities, they can only be
for in-house use and users.
   In the meantime, I have been developing (over 15 years) an enormous
and complex application system which I use in a "second career".  It's
almost 900K lines of TP code by now, and I'm quite sure I couldn't have
produced anything of this magnitude and complexity in any other
programming language - the IDE (editor, linker) has been the key factor
for me, and C/C++ doesn't have such things to my knowledge.
   So, for myself and others worldwide, Pascal remains a vital and
important development tool, regardless of what businesses think or do,
and without the ongoing support of Borland (they dropped the product
several years ago, in favor of a more "marketable" Windows-based system
called Delphi).
   And as a result of all this, one can't find after-market texts or
educational forums for Pascal - which makes it really seem the language
has virtually died.  It hasn't died, but there's little visible to prove
that. <sigh...>

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
Mary Finley wrote:

"Whatever happened to Pascal Programming Langugage?  I have been
studying programming languages and I think Pascal is the most
effective programming language for a company to use."

This question gets into a number of sticky issues.  Personally, I
like Pascal and prefer it to C, and only wish that the more
interesting extensions of C++ (like overloading) had been added
to a hypothetical "Pascal++" language.  I think (no references)
that studies have shown Pascal to be more effective than some of
its competitors (like C).  Partly, of course, it is useful for
industry to have one standard language, and that is presently
C/C++/Java (for better or worse).  I still use Pascal for "real"
work (I work in artificial intelligence and statistics).  
Special purpose languages have also done well: the other language
I've been using for my work is MATLAB.

--
Will Dwinnell

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
> This question gets into a number of sticky issues.  Personally, I
> like Pascal and prefer it to C, and only wish that the more
> interesting extensions of C++ (like overloading) had been added
> to a hypothetical "Pascal++" language.

The Pascal++ exists, it's Ada... roughly Pascal with
modularity, exceptions, overloading, definable operators,
unconstrained types, tasking... all that standardized, over many
platforms.

No flame: I'm a TP enthusiast too!

--
Gautier

--------
http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
I (Will Dwinnell) wrote:

"...I like Pascal and prefer it to C, and only wish that the more
interesting extensions of C++ (like overloading) had been added
to a hypothetical "Pascal++" language."

Gautier responded:
"The Pascal++ exists, it's Ada... roughly Pascal with modularity,
exceptions, overloading, definable operators, unconstrained
types, tasking... all that standardized, over many platforms."

That's very interesting.  I have been wondering about Ada for a
while now.  Supposedly, it is great for large projects.  I think
there have been studies bearing this out verus C++.

"No flame: I'm a TP enthusiast too!"

I wouldn't take it that way.  Thanks for the information!

--
Will Dwinnell

Re:pascal programming language


I will note that there are still Pascal jobs out there.  No, not
as many as for C/C++/Java, but there are some.  For that matter,
there is still some room for any non-mainstream language.

--
Will Dwinnell

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
> Gautier responded:
> "The Pascal++ exists, it's Ada... roughly Pascal with modularity,
> exceptions, overloading, definable operators, unconstrained
> types, tasking... all that standardized, over many platforms."
> That's very interesting.  I have been wondering about Ada for a
> while now.  Supposedly, it is great for large projects.  I think
> there have been studies bearing this out verus C++.

There is nothing such as an example for have an idea...
I've just tested an "Ada-to-HTML" tool for an unzip library
translated from TP to Ada (compiler/platform independant):

  http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/uza_html/index.htm

--
Gautier

Re:pascal programming language


In article <37AFE763.CFD1...@maths.unine.ch>,

Quote
Gautier  <gautier.demontmol...@maths.unine.ch> wrote:

>The Pascal++ exists, it's Ada... roughly Pascal with
>modularity, exceptions, overloading, definable operators,
>unconstrained types, tasking... all that standardized, over many
>platforms.

Come on, in Pascal one of the leading principles was simplicity. ADA
has everything in it, including the kitchen sink. It is a typical
government project.

Osmo

Re:pascal programming language


Gautier schrieb in Nachricht <37AFE763.CFD1...@maths.unine.ch>...

Quote
>> This question gets into a number of sticky issues.  Personally, I
>> like Pascal and prefer it to C, and only wish that the more
>> interesting extensions of C++ (like overloading) had been added
>> to a hypothetical "Pascal++" language.

>The Pascal++ exists, it's Ada... roughly Pascal with
>modularity, exceptions, overloading, definable operators,
>unconstrained types, tasking... all that standardized, over many
>platforms.

Is there a version of Ada which is at least 70 % compatible to
Turbo Pascal and supports modern CPUs and has code optimization?
(Ah, and for DOS, please.)
I'm interested.

--
  [ http://home.t-online.de/~Matthias.Buechse/ ] - [ Matthias.Buec...@T-Online.de ]
  [ Homepage contents: About Me - TP,TASM,Delphi descriptions - My projects - ... ]
  [ Homepage German only - vote for an English version; use my E-Mail above       ]

Re:pascal programming language


What about Delphi? I'm working in a pretty much Delphi only shop-and the code
sure looks a lot like pascal...
Object pascal is still pascal...
Ada isn't pascal-oberon and modula 3 are much closer to the next gen of
pascal.

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
Mary Finley wrote:

> Whatever happened to Pascal Programming Langugage?  I have been studying
> programming languages and I think Pascal is the most effective programming
> language for a company to use.  I would like to visit a company that uses
> Pascal and see what their system has to offer.  I work for a leading Mail
> Catalog company and I think they would be very happy to hear more about
> Pascal.  You can talk to me at mefin...@mhtc.net.  I'd like to hear from
> you, soon.

Reading all the interesting answers here in the NG ...

I am still afraid that there is some confusion about the point:
Language vs implementation. (Oh yes, I know, the old story).

There are several distinct IMPLEMENTATIONS of Pascal compilers and
development environments introduced, from old MT+ until Delphi or GNU
and FPC etc. And they are very distinct with their power and readyness
for particular applications and targets. Some implementations conform
to a "standard" as it is defined by a mysterious government
organisation (which makes it extremely doubtful for me), others have
a lot of extensions, eg. OOPs. And Delphi has a powerful BDE, but
it is limited to Windows and its oddities and poor stability.

It does not make much sense for me to ask if Latin would be a proper
language for poetry or if it would be better suited for the
description of technical terms or for juridical applications.

Pascal is the derivative of ALGOL, made simpler to use. So it is
primarily optimized to describe math algorithms. It has some benefits
over other languages, but they do not seem to be the benefits which
the majority of smart youngster managers and producers of impressive
"quick (to market) and dirty" programs like.

Visiting a company, that uses a particular compiler version, will give
you no precise impressions, which could be useful for your decision.
--
Franz Glaser, Glasau 3, A-4191 Vorderweissenbach Austria +43-7219-7035-0
Muehlviertler Elektronik Glaser.  Industrial control and instrumentation
http://members.eunet.at/meg-glaser/           mailto:meg-gla...@eunet.at
http://www.geocities.com/~franzglaser/ http://members.xoom.com/f_glaser/

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
> >The Pascal++ exists, it's Ada... roughly Pascal with
> >modularity, exceptions, overloading, definable operators,
> >unconstrained types, tasking... all that standardized, over many
> >platforms.
> Come on, in Pascal one of the leading principles was simplicity. ADA
> has everything in it, including the kitchen sink. It is a typical
> government project.

All these features are orthogonal: you are not obliged to use or even to
know them. E.g. Ada has a full tasking model but personnally I've
never used it...

In fact it's a miracle in computing history that a government
project (worse: a _defence_ one!) has lead to a so well done and efficient
thing! The reason is that they have made an international competition
and finally trusted the project of cartesian (and pascalian) Frenchmen...

--
Gautier

--------
http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
> Is there a version of Ada which is at least 70 % compatible to
> Turbo Pascal and supports modern CPUs and has code optimization?
> (Ah, and for DOS, please.)

Yes, GNAT/DOS (the official DJGPP Ada front-end and unofficial
GNAT DOS port). For the 70%,... it may vary from 68,3% to 83,12%.

Links and resources @...
  http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/gsoft.htm

Warning: it's a 32-bit thing (for 386 or +)...

--
Gautier

Re:pascal programming language


In article <37B187F8.3E59F...@maths.unine.ch>,

Quote
Gautier  <gautier.demontmol...@maths.unine.ch> wrote:

>All these features are orthogonal: you are not obliged to use or even to
>know them. E.g. Ada has a full tasking model but personnally I've
>never used it...

Ada is hardly orthogonal. For example functions can only have in
parameters.

Osmo

Re:pascal programming language


Quote
> >All these features are orthogonal: you are not obliged to use or even to
> >know them. E.g. Ada has a full tasking model but personnally I've
> >never used it...
> Ada is hardly orthogonal. For example functions can only have in
> parameters.

Is it an orthogonality problem ?
Rather a "prophilactic" restriction - here: avoid side-effects
by changing function's parameters, generally a messy design...

I think that obligation in Pascal to have an extra local variable
with the function's name to return a value much more annoying!

--
Gautier

--------
http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

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