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Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5

Quote
> Please send me one of thoses programs. Thank you

   Highly unlikely that anyone would do this, since it's illegal and
unethical to do so (not to mention being the recipient of such software).
Turbo Pascal - even old versions - has always been a commercial product.
 

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


Please send me one of thoses programs. Thank you

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


Quote
Mike Copeland wrote:

> > Please send me one of thoses programs. Thank you

> Highly unlikely that anyone would do this, since it's illegal and
> unethical to do so (not to mention being the recipient of such
> software). Turbo Pascal - even old versions - has always been a
> commercial product.

Highly unlikely even if it were legal and ethical. Those of us with old
versions guard them jealously. Like museum pieces.

--
Fully 75% of my personal e-mail is unsolicited adverti{*word*224}t.
If you are a real person and have something to say to me then
remove the asterisk (*) from my reply-to address.
==> While you're at it, take a look at http://www.cauce.org/

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


Quote
Alan M. Evans wrote:

[...]

Quote
> Highly unlikely even if it were legal and ethical. Those of us with old
> versions guard them jealously. Like museum pieces.

Here's a question for someone with an old museum piece - I have purchased
every release of TP since 3.0, but I no longer have the disks for
anything earlier than TP 5.5

If someone has the TP 5.0 version, there is a basic spreadsheet
demo program called TCALC that is not done in OOP.

I would very much appreciate it if I could get a copy of this demo
program - I find the OOP versions that come with TP 5.5, TP6, etc.,
almost impossible to understand or modify.

I don't think Borland would consider this a violation of their copyright
- this is source for a demo, and not one of their executables. And they
give the demo free to illustrate how their software works.

Please, some kind soul, help me out - I've asked everyone I know, but
they have lost their disks or loaned them to someone and don't know who.

Best Regards,

Mike
CEO, Analog & Digital Design
Automated Production Test
  http://www.csolve.net/~add/home.htm

Hosting Jonathan Ramsey's Pascal TCP/IP for DOS:
  http://www.csolve.net/~add/zips/tcp.htm

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


Quote
dick Wisan wrote:
> I is illegal, of course, but I'm coming to think it shouldn't be.  If
> Borland _would_ sell the old versions, the standard rule would be
> perfectly fair, but they don't, and there's _nobody_ from whom you
> can legally get one of those small early versions any more.  If
> they refuse to sell them, we ought to be free to pass around what
> we have.

But you _are_ free to pass around anything you have. The problem arises
when computer software is involved. With software, you don't give it to
someone like you would, say, a car or a book; what you do is give a copy
of it, and this is where the copyright law says "no."

All you have to do is find someone who doesn't want their's anymore.

--
Fully 75% of my personal e-mail is unsolicited adverti{*word*224}t.
If you are a real person and have something to say to me then
remove the asterisk (*) from my reply-to address.
==> While you're at it, take a look at http://www.cauce.org/

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


In article <E4D2A3D6790CC733.167DDA600741FF89.60E6100031798...@library-proxy.airnews.net>, look...@airmail.net* says...

Quote

>dick Wisan wrote:

>> I is illegal, of course, but I'm coming to think it shouldn't be.  If
>> Borland _would_ sell the old versions, the standard rule would be
>> perfectly fair, but they don't, and there's _nobody_ from whom you
>> can legally get one of those small early versions any more.  If
>> they refuse to sell them, we ought to be free to pass around what
>> we have.

>But you _are_ free to pass around anything you have. The problem arises
>when computer software is involved. With software, you don't give it to
>someone like you would, say, a car or a book; what you do is give a copy
>of it, and this is where the copyright law says "no."

Right, and that's my complaint.  It shouldn't.  Given that it does,
Borland should offer to sell or release into the PD the right to use
the early editions.  

As you understood, of course, by "pass around what we have" I mean
give people copies of disks in our possession.  I wouldn't mind a
prohibition on selling the copies.

Quote

>All you have to do is find someone who doesn't want their's anymore.

I'm on the other side of this demand.  I have copies of everything
since TP1 for DOS (I don't have any CP/M versions).  I'd love to
share them & I resent Borland's (and the law's) refusal to let me
give what they no longer have any interest in selling.

--
R. N. (dick) Wisan  - Email: wis...@norwich.net
                    - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
                    - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


Quote
Mike Copeland wrote:

> > >> Please send me one of thoses programs. Thank you

> > >   Highly unlikely that anyone would do this, since it's illegal and
> > >unethical to do so (not to mention being the recipient of such software).
> > >Turbo Pascal - even old versions - has always been a commercial product.

> > I is illegal, of course, but I'm coming to think it shouldn't be.  If
> > Borland _would_ sell the old versions, the standard rule would be
> > perfectly fair, but they don't, and there's _nobody_ from whom you
> > can legally get one of those small early versions any more.  If
> > they refuse to sell them, we ought to be free to pass around what
> > we have.

>    What we feel is reasonable or proper isn't the issue here, since
> Borland has the legal right to prohibit such distribution.  As a
> practical matter, they probably wouldn't sue someone who did so, but who
> knows?  I wouldn't take the chance, regardless of my ethics which
> wouldn't permit me to do it - I continue to honor Borland's right to do
> this.

I think the problem is that some of the compiler code (in highly
modified
form, I hope) is still in use in products like Delphi.  My copy of
Delphi 1.0 is Copyright *1983* to 1995.  If they fail to protect their
copyright on the older programs, another software company could take
them
to court and have the copyright revoked because Borland isn't trying to
uphold it.  Then portions of the Delphi compiler would be in the public
domain, which wouldn't be good.  Of course, they could still distribute
TP 5 and below under a license for unlimited distribution but with
restrictions on reverse engineering.  I'm not sure how sound any of this
is legally but it would partially explain what they're doing.

Quote
> > Does _Borland_ take the view that we should be setting up with GNU
> > Pascal & such?

>    I doubt Borland cares at all.  If they did, they'd be right out there
> in the marketplace with a highly competitive 32 bit DOS product (which
> they are obviously not doing...).

--
Jared Showalter
Remove the REMOVETHIS from my address to reply.

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


Quote
Jared Showalter <shonw...@gate.REMOVETHIS.net> wrote:
> I think the problem is that some of the compiler code (in highly
> modified
> form, I hope) is still in use in products like Delphi. My copy of
> Delphi 1.0 is Copyright *1983* to 1995.

AFAIH, the Delphi 2.0 compiler was completely rewritten in C.

Quote
> If they fail to protect their
> copyright on the older programs, another software company could take
> them
> to court and have the copyright revoked because Borland isn't trying to
> uphold it.

Myth! See the "10 Big Myths about copyright explained" FAQ
(posted regularly to news.announce.newusers, news.answers, ...)

Quote
> > > Does _Borland_ take the view that we should be setting up with GNU
> > > Pascal & such?

> >    I doubt Borland cares at all.  If they did, they'd be right out there
> > in the marketplace with a highly competitive 32 bit DOS product (which
> > they are obviously not doing...).

They obviously take the view (as evidenced more than once by postings in
c.l.p.b) that we should switch to Delphi. Maybe they're not able to imagine
that there are people who don't want to program in/for Windoze?

--
Frank Heckenbach, Erlangen, Germany
heckenb@[NOSPAM.REMOVE.THIS]mi.uni-erlangen.de
Internet links:        http://home.pages.de/~fjf/links.htm
Turbo Pascal programs: http://home.pages.de/~fjf/programs.htm

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


<SNIP>
: learning.  I also don't think that borland would really care if
someone
: pirated one of those old programs
<SPLIT>
actually i think they would mind.
i mean you would most likely mind if one of your old games or apps
were being pirated wouldnt you? thought so...
i know i would... and i think that most people reading this group
would mind to...

yea right... and you are god? doubt it
:because no one uses them for making commercial programs anyhow.
and how are you to know this??? are you god?
FOR YOUR INFO.
my cousin and 2nd cousins aunt use them regularly(4 or 5).
and i have messed with 4 myself.
and it doesnt matter if anyone is making commercial programs
anyhow...
people use them to make task completing programs and let them go
public as freeware...
gee i only made 30-40 small programs in visual basic 4 that didnt do
much but helped solve simple task quickly and correctly.

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


I am looking for TP 3 or 4 also.  The reason is is because I gave my Tandy
8086 to some people, and I want them to have a pascal compiler for
learning.  I also don't think that borland would really care if someone
pirated one of those old programs because no one really uses them for
making commercial programs anyhow.

Mike <NoS...@Today.Thanks> wrote in article <343B72CF.6...@Today.Thanks>...

Quote
> Alan M. Evans wrote:

> [...]

> > Highly unlikely even if it were legal and ethical. Those of us with old
> > versions guard them jealously. Like museum pieces.

> Here's a question for someone with an old museum piece - I have purchased
> every release of TP since 3.0, but I no longer have the disks for
> anything earlier than TP 5.5

> If someone has the TP 5.0 version, there is a basic spreadsheet
> demo program called TCALC that is not done in OOP.

> I would very much appreciate it if I could get a copy of this demo
> program - I find the OOP versions that come with TP 5.5, TP6, etc.,
> almost impossible to understand or modify.

> I don't think Borland would consider this a violation of their copyright
> - this is source for a demo, and not one of their executables. And they
> give the demo free to illustrate how their software works.

> Please, some kind soul, help me out - I've asked everyone I know, but
> they have lost their disks or loaned them to someone and don't know who.

> Best Regards,

> Mike
> CEO, Analog & Digital Design
> Automated Production Test
>   http://www.csolve.net/~add/home.htm

> Hosting Jonathan Ramsey's Pascal TCP/IP for DOS:
>   http://www.csolve.net/~add/zips/tcp.htm

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


Quote
> I am looking for TP 3 or 4 also.  The reason is is because I gave my Tandy
> 8086 to some people, and I want them to have a pascal compiler for
> learning.  I also don't think that borland would really care if someone
> pirated one of those old programs because no one really uses them for
> making commercial programs anyhow.

   You have reason to believe this?  A legal release from Borland's
license for these products?  Something in writing, perhaps?
   Interesting if so, because I haven't seen their copyrights run out and
I know for a fact that _some_ people are in fact using these older
versions to produce some viable commercial programs...

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


In article <620ns0$...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, sas...@worldnet.att.net says...

Quote

><SNIP>
>: learning.  I also don't think that borland would really care if
>: someone pirated one of those old programs
><SPLIT>
>actually i think they would mind.
>i mean you would most likely mind if one of your old games or apps
>were being pirated wouldnt you? thought so...
>i know i would... and i think that most people reading this group
>would mind to...

"Pirated" is a big word.  I'd resent it all right if someone were
selling back versions of something of mine.  But, he's talking about
giving away something that Borland doesn't want to sell any more.

--
R. N. (dick) Wisan  - Email: wis...@norwich.net
                    - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
                    - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


: ><SNIP>
: >: learning.  I also don't think that borland would really care if
: >: someone pirated one of those old programs
: ><SPLIT>
: >actually i think they would mind.
: >i mean you would most likely mind if one of your old games or apps
: >were being pirated wouldnt you? thought so...
: >i know i would... and i think that most people reading this group
: >would mind to...
:
: "Pirated" is a big word.  I'd resent it all right if someone were
: selling back versions of something of mine.  But, he's talking
about
: giving away something that Borland doesn't want to sell any more.
:
It is still pirating. im sure if the person really wants tp 3-5 that
bad he can quickly search for a company that still has leftover
stock. and im sure if he wrote borland a letter they would(might)
comply. i really doubt that they destroyed their source code... i
mean thats alot of work to just delete.

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


In article <6222do$...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
sas...@worldnet.att.net says...

Quote

>:
>: "Pirated" is a big word.  I'd resent it all right if someone were
>: selling back versions of something of mine.  But, he's talking
>: about giving away something that Borland doesn't want to sell any
>: more.
>:
>It is still pirating.

Legally, of course, but I'm talking about the morals of it.  About
what the law ought to be, if you prefer.

Quote
>              ...im sure if the person really wants tp 3-5 that
>bad he can quickly search for a company that still has leftover
>stock. and im sure if he wrote borland a letter they would(might)
>comply.

If that's the case (and they aren't asking absurd prices for back
versions like those), my objections do not apply, but do you have
reason to think Borland _will_ still sell a copy of, say, TP3?
As someone pointed out, they ought to set up to sell back versions
with ASCII manuals on disk, but do they?   The fact that the code
must still be kicking around somewhere isn't enough.

--
R. N. (dick) Wisan  - Email: wis...@norwich.net
                    - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
                    - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.

Re:Looking for Tp3, tp4, or tp5


Quote
Alan M. Evans wrote:

>{*word*106} Wisan wrote:

> > I is illegal, of course, but I'm coming to think it shouldn't be.  If
> > Borland _would_ sell the old versions, the standard rule would be
> > perfectly fair, but they don't, and there's _nobody_ from whom you
> > can legally get one of those small early versions any more.  If
> > they refuse to sell them, we ought to be free to pass around what
> > we have.

> But you _are_ free to pass around anything you have. The problem arises
> when computer software is involved. With software, you don't give it to
> someone like you would, say, a car or a book; what you do is give a copy
> of it, and this is where the copyright law says "no."

> All you have to do is find someone who doesn't want their's anymore.

> --
> Fully 75% of my personal e-mail is unsolicited adverti{*word*224}t.
> If you are a real person and have something to say to me then
> remove the asterisk (*) from my reply-to address.
> ==> While you're at it, take a look at http://www.cauce.org/

Alan,

 I have a registered version of TP5.0, that I may be willing to part
with. However,
I don't have you e-mail address to discuss this privately with you.  If
you will
contact me by e-mail, let's see what we can do!

Bob Hansen,
rlhan...@zianet.com

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