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Visual Basic or Delphi ? (film at eleven!)

On 7 Oct 1997 19:44:27 GMT, Joe "We are Borg" Foster <j...@bftsi0.UUCP>
wrote:

Quote
>Agreed! I don't demand anti-Delphi statements in your wrapup, I only ask
>you to be fair. By the way, I'm no longer at red alert, and I promise to
>not fly off the handle like I did, since the weenies appear to have been
>silenced. However, I still have unanswered questions about Delphi's
>database capabilities, including whether it can treat named queries as
>(perhaps) updatable views to allow nearly arbitrarily sophisicated data
>massaging, and how Derek Benner's updatable decision tesseracts are done.
>I don't see any real difficulty with implenenting such a beast in VB, but
>perhaps this is only because there's something I'm failing to grasp.

Well, I believe now you can satisfy your curiosity in the Delphi
newsgroup. It seems that the comparisons have stopped, so it's better
to look for informations on Delphi at:

comp.lang.pascal.delphi.databases

Cheers,

Flavia Quadros

?Right choices are result of right thinking and right informations!

 

Re:Visual Basic or Delphi ? (film at eleven!)


I'm seeing complaints about this thread in c.l.b.v.d, so I'm going to try
to wrap up my remaining concerns in this one post. I hope it doesn't turn
into a dissertation because of that! :-)

Quote
l...@oberon.sub.net.au (Luke Webber) writes:
> Joe "We are Borg" Foster <j...@bftsi0.UUCP> writes:
> >annandr...@-cadvision-dot.-com (R. Annand) writes:

[snip]

Quote
> Don't jump on EBR this time, because I was the one who posted about
> {$I...}. In any case, I'm still mostly using Delphi 1, which *doesn't*
> support the long forms. The point about comments being OK for other
> compilers is well taken, but I can't imagine running any *real* Delphi
> code through another compiler in any case. Still, it's the only good
> explanation I've heard in favour of using comments this way.

True, but out of our tussling over the issue, there was plenty of
opportunity to say "By the way, you can also use {$INCLUDE..." and my
objections about the {$ stuff would have died right then and there!

Anyway, {$I doesn't bug me nearly as much as the logical/binary operator
precedence. If this is an attempt to get people to parenthesize, the
compiler should complain, not silently emit satellite killers! (By this,
I refer to a satellite launched in the 60's that soon tumbled out of
orbit because of wrong punctuation in a single FORTRAN for statement!)

Quote
> Still, you didn't have to get *quite* so e{*word*277}d about this one little bit
> of dirty laundry <g>. It's never hurt me, it just niggles.

When he complained about something in VB, I tried to show him when there
were alternative and perhaps better approaches. He didn't seem to want to
return the favor, instead preferring to post deliberately unclear and
completely uncompilable examples of VB's "brokenness". :-(

Quote
> I plan to post an article in the next couple of days giving a selection of
> pro-Delphi arguments (and maybe even one or two anti-Delphi to keep Joe
> happy). I want to put it all into one article, though, because this thread
> is getting a little over the top.

Agreed! I don't demand anti-Delphi statements in your wrapup, I only ask
you to be fair. By the way, I'm no longer at red alert, and I promise to
not fly off the handle like I did, since the weenies appear to have been
silenced. However, I still have unanswered questions about Delphi's
database capabilities, including whether it can treat named queries as
(perhaps) updatable views to allow nearly arbitrarily sophisicated data
massaging, and how Derek Benner's updatable decision tesseracts are done.
I don't see any real difficulty with implenenting such a beast in VB, but
perhaps this is only because there's something I'm failing to grasp.

Note to Joel: a tesseract is a four-dimensional cube. They are also known
as "hypercubes". I guess a decision tesseract is like a decision cube
extended into another dimension, like a spreadsheet might be extended
into the third dimension to result in a cube.

There have been plenty of assertions that multiple inheritance can be
"easily" simulated in Delphi. How?? I can think of a way, but it's quite
ugly and {*word*193} and not something I'd wish on even EBR to maintain! :^)

CORBA: I think I once ran across an ad in Object or some such magazine
which talked about a COM to CORBA gateway component. It looked very cool,
but a web search didn't pull up anything definitive. I hope somebody's
making such a beastie and I wasn't just daydreaming! Maybe Emperor Bill I
squashed it and has the last remaining copy of the source in his ba{*word*224}t
with the Roswell alien corpses? <grin, duck, and run!>

Quote
> --
> Luke Webber

[snip]

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Re:Visual Basic or Delphi ? (film at eleven!)


In article <61e3er$m7...@owl.slip.net> Joe "We are Borg" Foster <j...@bftsi0.UUCP> writes:

Quote
>I'm seeing complaints about this thread in c.l.b.v.d, so I'm going to try
>to wrap up my remaining concerns in this one post. I hope it doesn't turn
>into a dissertation because of that! :-)

I do think this thread needs to be wound up, along with the many other threads
which will no doubt follow it from time to time.

Both of these languages, ladies and gents, are "here to stay."  Both are in
heavy use to prepare hundreds of thousands of source-lines of "debugged,
running code" that's worth millions of dollars (or pounds or yen or whatever).

And professionals in our neck of the business should make it -their- business
to know how to use both tools and to also know when to use them.  And when not
to!  There are numerous reasons.  Endless reasons.  Politics.  Staffing.  
History.  You name it.

The marketroids who murmur, "nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft?
Visual? <<whatever>>" will always be with us.  They will also murmur, "but
what are you going to do if <<company-X>> goes away?"  

That doesn't mean that we need to flog this dead horse endlessly over the
Internet.  So, "let's don't."

Re:Visual Basic or Delphi ? (film at eleven!)


Quote
>Anyway, {$I doesn't bug me nearly as much as the logical/binary operator
>precedence. If this is an attempt to get people to parenthesize, the
>compiler should complain, not silently emit satellite killers! (By this,
>I refer to a satellite launched in the 60's that soon tumbled out of
>orbit because of wrong punctuation in a single FORTRAN for statement!)

There are heinously few situations that you can get in trouble in that way
from Pascal's operator precedence - one of the major reasons is that boolean
and binary results *aren't compatible*, so:

  if x > 5 and y < 10 then...

Gives an error, because even though it would evaluate out to:

  x > (5 and y) < 10

The right hand side of the comparison is a boolean (True/False), and there's
no such thing as x being "greater than" a boolean

Actually, I even just tried:

  if x = 5 and y < 10 then...

Where x WAS a boolean and it's still not allowed :)  It's quite strict; I've
never in my years working with it found a place where it was "too lax" - you
get an error and then say, "Doh... brackets" :)  Satellites would be pretty
safe with this stuff (Noooo, not Windows 99 for Satellites! :)

Quote
>There have been plenty of assertions that multiple inheritance can be
>"easily" simulated in Delphi. How?? I can think of a way, but it's quite
>ugly and {*word*193} and not something I'd wish on even EBR to maintain! :^)

Not sure; I usually get around that just by implementing a "message" type
method that I call via TObject (the base object of the VCL)'s "Dispatch"
method.  The nice thing is that you can just not bother to implement the
message type in the classes you choose to, though the parameters are
marginally more tedious to use than in regular methods.  You can, of course,
do the interface thing, but... nyahh :)

Quote
>CORBA: I think I once ran across an ad in Object or some such magazine
>which talked about a COM to CORBA gateway component. It looked very cool,
>but a web search didn't pull up anything definitive. I hope somebody's
>making such a beastie and I wasn't just daydreaming! Maybe Emperor Bill I
>squashed it and has the last remaining copy of the source in his ba{*word*224}t
>with the Roswell alien corpses? <grin, duck, and run!>

I *have* seen a web page like that - I know it was compatible with quite a few
things (VB and Delphi included) but I can't remember if it was one of the
ODBMSes or what :)

  -- Ritchie Annand

(Anti-spam measure - e-mail address contains neither hyphens nor the
words 'at' or 'dot' :)

Re:Visual Basic or Delphi ? (film at eleven!)


Verily, t...@ria.net spake thus:

Quote
>On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:38:00 GMT, annandr...@-cadvision-dot.-com (R.
>Annand) wrote:
>>There are heinously few situations that you can get in trouble in that way
>>from Pascal's operator precedence - one of the major reasons is that boolean
>>and binary results *aren't compatible*, so:

>>  if x > 5 and y < 10 then...
>Yes, but if you put them in parentheses, they evaluate correctly.
>If (x > 5) and (y < 10) Then...
>JE McTaggart

Having said that, the precedence problem caused in this manner usually
results in a type conflict, so it's easily spotted.

MH.
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Re:Visual Basic or Delphi ? (film at eleven!)


On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:38:00 GMT, annandr...@-cadvision-dot.-com (R.

Quote
Annand) wrote:
>There are heinously few situations that you can get in trouble in that way
>from Pascal's operator precedence - one of the major reasons is that boolean
>and binary results *aren't compatible*, so:

>  if x > 5 and y < 10 then...

Yes, but if you put them in parentheses, they evaluate correctly.

If (x > 5) and (y < 10) Then...

JE McTaggart

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