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Delphi for Linux

The borland survey results are now available at
http://www.borland.com/linux/survey/

--
Mike Best Programming
Brisbane
Australia

 

Re:Delphi for Linux


Interesting results. What I found most interesting were the responses to the
distribution/licensing and willing to pay questions. They may be skewed
because of the sample population but it does seem that people want a low
cost tool for developing free or inexpensive utilities.

I continue to wonder if Linux is a large enough market in which Borland can
profit with Delphi. I guess part of that depends on the actual development
costs. Can they simply port the VCL or is it going to require a complete
redesign/rewrite?

Quote
Mike Best <lin...@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message

news:ZY5s3.3624$X4.8292@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Quote
> The borland survey results are now available at
> http://www.borland.com/linux/survey/

> --
> Mike Best Programming
> Brisbane
> Australia

Re:Delphi for Linux


Quote
Bruce Roberts wrote:

> Interesting results. What I found most interesting were the responses to the
> distribution/licensing and willing to pay questions. They may be skewed
> because of the sample population but it does seem that people want a low
> cost tool for developing free or inexpensive utilities.

Those price suggestions made also me wonder slightly, $100..$300 for Delphi
for Linux. But actually this does not differ so dramatically about the
current Delphi prices. For instance a Delphi Pro 5 upgrade costs only $249
http://www.provantage.com/, and Delphi 5 Standard upgrade as little
as $81.70.

Small software shops are always the first to adopt new product ideas, so
there should not to be too much worried about, even the most respondents
were from small, 1..10 developer companies.
Bigger companies will follow, if the product works, is fast easy and succesful.

Currently *no one* knows if it will be fast, easy and succesful. I hope
Borland has their vision, and guts and determination to go on and make it
a succesful product. There is quite a bunch (25.000 respondents alone) who
really wish they will succeed.

Markku Nevalainen

Re:Delphi for Linux


On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:31:46 GMT, "Bruce Roberts"

Quote
<no.junk.please....@attcanada.net> wrote:
>...I continue to wonder if Linux is a large enough market in which
>Borland can profit with Delphi...

I hope this catch-22 won't be the same demise for Linux as it was for OS/2.
Few major software companies wanted to make software for this OS because
there weren't enough users to justify the cost. And few users would migrate
because there was not enough real software.

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Steve Koterski        "The difference between genius and stupidity is that
Felton, CA            genius has its limits."                   -- Unknown

Re:Delphi for Linux


That's always a problem. But a cross platform compatible Delphi VCL would
probably encourage a large number of Windows developers to release Linux
versions. Its a gamble but it could pay off in a big way.

Quote
Steve Koterski <koter...@NOSPAMgte.net> wrote in message

news:37b19caf.1174360@news.gte.net...
Quote
> On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:31:46 GMT, "Bruce Roberts"
> <no.junk.please....@attcanada.net> wrote:

> >...I continue to wonder if Linux is a large enough market in which
> >Borland can profit with Delphi...

> I hope this catch-22 won't be the same demise for Linux as it was for
OS/2.
> Few major software companies wanted to make software for this OS because
> there weren't enough users to justify the cost. And few users would
migrate
> because there was not enough real software.

> _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
> Steve Koterski        "The difference between genius and stupidity is that
> Felton, CA            genius has its limits."                   -- Unknown

Re:Delphi for Linux


Quote
Steve Koterski wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:31:46 GMT, "Bruce Roberts"
> <no.junk.please....@attcanada.net> wrote:

> >...I continue to wonder if Linux is a large enough market in which
> >Borland can profit with Delphi...

> I hope this catch-22 won't be the same demise for Linux as it was for OS/2.
> Few major software companies wanted to make software for this OS because
> there weren't enough users to justify the cost. And few users would migrate
> because there was not enough real software.

Steve, I suspect that the Microsoft anti-trust trial changed the entire
rules of the game on this score.  People finally realize what a menace
Microsoft really is, and I think that a lot of the drive behind Linux is
actually a manifestation of the desire to have an effective alternative
to the MS monopoly -- which has proven itself to be very menacing
indeed.

The most obvious example, of course, is Microsoft's "it's all part of
the operating system" strategy -- which could very easily be expanded to
encompass any and every type of software in the known universe, and
which is the classic litany of every monopolist.

Whether or not the Federal Court responds effectively to the threat, I
think that the marketplace definitely is doing so ... and the focus of
its attention is Linux.

Re:Delphi for Linux


Here is more positive news for Linux.  Taken from USA Today  Money Section,
page 3B.  "SGI  (Silicon Graphics) will: Design future computers to work
with Linux, a free and open operating system.  It might eventually spin off
its unit that creates workstations based on Windows NT."

Here is more proof positive that Linux is being adopted by heavy-hitting
software companies.   My opinion.  They are tired of Microsoft's control.

Marko
----------------------------------
m...@godex.com

Quote
Mike Best wrote in message ...
>The borland survey results are now available at
>http://www.borland.com/linux/survey/

>--
>Mike Best Programming
>Brisbane
>Australia

Re:Delphi for Linux


"INPRISE ANNOUNCES COMMITMENT TO LINUX
Survey Results Conclude Mainstream Application Development is Next for
Linux"
http://www.borland.com/about/press/1999/commit2linux.html
--
Mike Best Programming
Brisbane
Australia

Quote
Mike Best wrote in message ...
>The borland survey results are now available at
>http://www.borland.com/linux/survey/

>--
>Mike Best Programming
>Brisbane
>Australia

Re:Delphi for Linux


In article <37b19caf.1174...@news.gte.net>

Quote
koter...@NOSPAMgte.net (Steve Koterski) wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:31:46 GMT, "Bruce Roberts"
> <no.junk.please....@attcanada.net> wrote:

>>...I continue to wonder if Linux is a large enough market in which
>>Borland can profit with Delphi...

> I hope this catch-22 won't be the same demise for Linux as it was for OS/2.
> Few major software companies wanted to make software for this OS because
> there weren't enough users to justify the cost. And few users would migrate
> because there was not enough real software.

I doubt that the issue of a large enough user base will be the problem.
There is already a huge user base. What I suspect will likely be a
problem is linked to the "free software" idea - whether there will
be a large enough *paying* user base. Why would anyone want to
pay $300 for Delphi for Linux if they then have to to give the software
that they produce free to "private users"? That is hardly a way to plan
for retirement, and this is what might discourage the development of
commercial and shareware Linux applications. Delphi for Linux will
probably be profitable for Borland if it is priced at a sensible level,
but whether it will be profitable for Delphi programmers is another
thing.

Best regards, The Chief
--------------
Dr A Olowofoyeku (The African Chief)
Author of Chief's Installer Pro v5.12 for Win32
    ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win95/install/chief512.zip
Email: la...@keele.ac.uk
WWW: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/African_Chief/

Re:Delphi for Linux


Quote
The African Chief wrote in message <37b367d...@clarion.carno.net.au>...
>I doubt that the issue of a large enough user base will be the problem.
>There is already a huge user base. What I suspect will likely be a
>problem is linked to the "free software" idea - whether there will
>be a large enough *paying* user base. Why would anyone want to
>pay $300 for Delphi for Linux if they then have to to give the software
>that they produce free to "private users"? That is hardly a way to plan
>for retirement, and this is what might discourage the development of
>commercial and shareware Linux applications. Delphi for Linux will
>probably be profitable for Borland if it is priced at a sensible level,
>but whether it will be profitable for Delphi programmers is another
>thing.

In a way, this might be another factor that will boost Java. If you're
writing platform-neutral code, you can sell it without reference to Linux.
If someone asks, sure it *runs* on Linux, but there's no special Linux
version. You buy it (for money!) and then install it wherever you want that
has a JRE.

Luke

Re:Delphi for Linux


Hi,

Quote
> I doubt that the issue of a large enough user base will be the problem.
> There is already a huge user base. What I suspect will likely be a
> problem is linked to the "free software" idea - whether there will
> be a large enough *paying* user base. Why would anyone want to
> pay $300 for Delphi for Linux if they then have to to give the software
> that they produce free to "private users"? That is hardly a way to plan
> for retirement, and this is what might discourage the development of
> commercial and shareware Linux applications. Delphi for Linux will
> probably be profitable for Borland if it is priced at a sensible level,
> but whether it will be profitable for Delphi programmers is another
> thing.

No one says that you can't write commercial software for linux, if you don't
use GPLish code and or libraries then you can make it commercial. Also there
are many librarys that are under "GPL-Light" that alows you to sell the
produkts you made with them.
There are many commercial produkts out for linux.

- And how many programmers buy Delphi for Windows and write freeware ? I
think 300$ are not tu much for such a tool, even if you write free
programms.

Cu8ter Alex

Re:Delphi for Linux


<<The African Chief:
...What I suspect will likely be a
problem is linked to the "free software" idea - whether there will
be a large enough *paying* user base. Why would anyone want to
pay $300 for Delphi for Linux if they then have to to give the software
that they produce free to "private users"? That is hardly a way to plan
for retirement, and this is what might discourage the development of
commercial and shareware Linux applications. Delphi for Linux will
probably be profitable for Borland if it is priced at a sensible level,
but whether it will be profitable for Delphi programmers is another
thing.>>

There is one more problem with the Linux stuff: The OpenSource idea. Just think of how it will be to
write programs for customized OS'es...we would quickly get nostalgic about the times whan all we
needed to worry about was 5-6 patches of the BDE and a few versions of comctrl32 and similar .dll's.
And - frankly i don't see what the availability of the OS source has to do with the price of the
applications written to run on top of it ? What idiots spend a hell of a lot of time to become a
skilled programmer to write free software ? I spend 3 months writing an application for you, and I
shouldn't get paid ? I think things get mixed up in a way that makes it look just redicolous. OK,
B.Gates has profited on his software, he could proboably have sold it for half the price and still
have a good salary. But that doesn't mean everybody could do so. In my experience, custom made
software may be *very* profitable, while standard, off-the-shelf software is a risky project. The
investments (in time, that is) needed to streamline installation, testing in different environments,
keeping record of versions and provide documentation and user support is huge. Do we want software
development to become an activity only for passionate amateurs with a lot of time and nothing else
to do ? I would certainly not be a programmer in this scenario. Life is to short...

--

Bjoerge

Re:Delphi for Linux


Quote
The African Chief wrote:

> I doubt that the issue of a large enough user base will be the problem.
> There is already a huge user base. What I suspect will likely be a
> problem is linked to the "free software" idea - whether there will
> be a large enough *paying* user base. Why would anyone want to
> pay $300 for Delphi for Linux if they then have to to give the software
> that they produce free to "private users"? That is hardly a way to plan
> for retirement, and this is what might discourage the development of
> commercial and shareware Linux applications. Delphi for Linux will
> probably be profitable for Borland if it is priced at a sensible level,
> but whether it will be profitable for Delphi programmers is another
> thing.

"If you build it, they will come."  People spend $300 for Delphi all the
time and give the resulting software away; that is their perogative.

But I think that Linux is now moving away from its "do-it-yourself kit"
mentality and into the commercial world, just as PCs did twenty years
before.  There was a time when you bought a bag of parts and put your PC
together yourself.  Software was free, etc. But that was only because
there was no commercial expectations regarding it.

"You get what you pay for."  It's axiomatic that no one [no, not even
college students and professors] works for free.  The commercial model
really does work because it can generate the revenue (read:  income,
read:  salaries) necessary to produce the stuff. Furthermore, it
generates product that (most of the time ;-)) is "really finished" and
that you can -use- without -dinking with it-.  (Okay, okay, "some of the
time" ...)

Where Microsoft went wrong, and I think that history has yet to finish
proving how wrong they were, was to try to lock people into "we own the
operating system and so we're going to do anything [with it | to you]
that we want because we own the operating system and there's nothing you
can do to stop us."  AND they put all that into e-mails.

The moment(!) Delphi for Linux hits the street, my credit-card number is
going to be in their computer.

Re:Delphi for Linux


Quote
Bj?rge S?ther wrote:
> There is one more problem with the Linux stuff: The OpenSource idea.
> Just think of how it will be to write programs for customized OS'es...
> we would quickly get nostalgic about the times whan all we
> needed to worry about was 5-6 patches of the BDE and a few versions
> of comctrl32 and similar .dll's.

Remember the S-100 bus?  It didn't last long either.

Re:Delphi for Linux


I think there is a general confusion between "Open Source" and "Free".  The two
aren't equivalent, and there are gradations to "Open Source".  One of the reasons
for Delphi's success (and it's a big success, even if there are a lot more VB
boxes on shelves) is that it is, in part, Open Source -- the VCL source code is
readily available for inspection, bug location, etc.

"Open Source" is also not synonymous with "no revenues".  See Eric Raymond's
economic analysis at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/magic-cauldron/.

As has been said in other posts, there's nothing that stops one from selling a
commercial program that runs under Linux.

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