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DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK

Henry Hill <goodfe...@btinternet.com> wrote in article
<6a8chf$aq...@uranium.btinternet.com>...

Quote

> Now I feel I've wasted my time and need to start all over again.  I
actually
> was getting this feeling, over the past few months and did seem to me
that
> while the US (and others I hope) have embraced Delphi, the UK seems less
> enthusiastic and Visual Basic rules by miles.  I would like to gauge your
> opinions on this...

You haven't wasted your time at all... I'm one of four programmers working
with a small IT company using solely Delphi, Delphi contracts come up every
week on uk.jobs.contract (one Berkshire company recently wanted four Delphi
coders for immediate start and was offering 35 per hour), and there is
actually a UK-based agency specialising in Delphi jobs (called, not
surprisingly, The Delphi Agency). VB may be more established over here but
Delphi is growing due to it being a far better product (imho of course).
Keep at it.

JJ.

--
Email: jjqu...@dircon.co.uk
Homepage: http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~jjquick/

 

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Visual Basic does seem to have a bit of a prescence in the UK, but i would
also argue that Delphi is gainly greatly in popularity.......and is
probably used now just as much commercially as VB.

I work in the IT sector as a software developer/analyst, etc. and have seen
a much more extensive Delphi prescence than i have Visual Basic.

Really, i think it depends on the type of application being developed and
the knowledge and experience of the developers.  I would argue that Delphi
is more powerful than VB, i certainly can't think of anything that VB can
do that Delphi can't.
And the speed of the Borland compiler is virtually unmatched (unless you
believe cetain MicroSoft benchmark results?!?!?!?).

Delphi produces a single executable, as apposed to VBs DLLs.  Is this an
advantage of Delphi or not?  What do others think ?

Gary.

<snip>

Quote
> Of the courses offered, there was RPG/AS 400, Oracle and Visual Basic.
On
> one of the advertising sheets these were listed and so was Boreland
Delphi.
> I asked one of the reps if they did Delphi (as I was under the impression
> they didn't), to which his reply was "We got very little call for this
tool,
> from our clients and its too specialised".

> Now I feel I've wasted my time and need to start all over again.  I
actually
> was getting this feeling, over the past few months and did seem to me
that
> while the US (and others I hope) have embraced Delphi, the UK seems less
> enthusiastic and Visual Basic rules by miles.

 <snip>

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Quote
Henry Hill (goodfe...@btinternet.com) wrote:

: If I may just throw this into the melting pot!
:
: I live near London (England, unless 'they've" moved it!).
:
: Over the past year I have been teaching myself Dephi (via a free give away
: of version 1 with a UK computer magazine).  Also I have been looking at SQL
: (via Oracle 7.0 reference manuals) and now feel I have quite a good feel for
: the two (I'm using SQL via ODBC to a Access V2.0 Database).
:
: I'm not directly employed in IT but wish to now make a move into this area.
:
: I recently went to a open day by an IT training and recruitment company, who
: I heard good reports about.  After a short logic test (which consisted of
: different symbols on which commands are actioned e.g. "invert", "reverse",
: "ignore" etc.) which I passed, I was offered two types of placement full or
: part time.
:
: Of the courses offered, there was RPG/AS 400, Oracle and Visual Basic.  On
: one of the advertising sheets these were listed and so was Boreland Delphi.
: I asked one of the reps if they did Delphi (as I was under the impression
: they didn't), to which his reply was "We got very little call for this tool,
: from our clients and its too specialised".
:
: Now I feel I've wasted my time and need to start all over again.  I actually
: was getting this feeling, over the past few months and did seem to me that
: while the US (and others I hope) have embraced Delphi, the UK seems less
: enthusiastic and Visual Basic rules by miles.  I would like to gauge your
: opinions on this...
:
: I hope that got your debating hats on..
:
: Stevie T..some where in England.
:
: tal...@ra.gtnet.gov.uk
:

No only in UK, here in Hong Kong, PowerBuilder, VB, FoxPro and C++ share
the market.

To me, I love Delphi very much, not only on its functionalities,
but also on its performance and versatility.

Delphi is really a nice stuff, so I start my own business and use
Delphi to develop applications for my clients.

--
Regards,

Jason.

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Quote
>From memory: Delphi went from 60th to 25th position in the list of

skills demanded in adverts in UK's Computer Weekly in the last annual
survey with a colossal growth rate, of so many hundred percent. Only
Java had a similar performance. However Java is now a busted flush.

If you listened to some people you'd still be doing Unix and C (that
propeller-heads job-creation scheme) or Cobol - and dreading 2001 A
Redundancy Odyssey.

I'm in London and agencies never stop ringing. Rates of 150 to 200 per
day are not uncommon. However competition for places is still fierce, in
spite of the statistics quoted. As for VB, that unspeakable dog's
dinner, I agree that it is more popular and still growing, as hordes of
living dead punters stumble like punch-drunk boxers onto Microsoft's
sucker punches.

BTW, there is a Jobs discussion group on Borland's newsgroup server.
Flame ye not, nor spam. Go gently amid the line-noise. ;-}
--
 +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  Steve Moran, Flying Objects Ltd, London.                         |
 |  Custom-made Computer Programs. Email: flyingobje...@hotmail.com  |
 +-------------------------------------------------------------------+

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Steve,

It's not just a US/US thing, it's worldwide. VB is *popular*, whereas
Delphi is merely great. Can't argue with that, can you?

If you're looking for your first job in IT, then you definitely blew it by
choosing the tool that every Winblows programmer should be using, but
which most development managers dump in favour of M$ crud. Unless you have
your own consultancy or an unusually smart employer, VB is the flavour,
and C++ is the next step. Yuck!

After that, learn Java and I hope you get big bucks, because after all
that, you'll deserve them! <g>

Quote
"Henry Hill" <goodfe...@btinternet.com> writes:

[snip]

Quote
>Now I feel I've wasted my time and need to start all over again.  I actually
>was getting this feeling, over the past few months and did seem to me that
>while the US (and others I hope) have embraced Delphi, the UK seems less
>enthusiastic and Visual Basic rules by miles.  I would like to gauge your
>opinions on this...
>I hope that got your debating hats on..
>Stevie T..some where in England.
>tal...@ra.gtnet.gov.uk

--
Luke Webber

* Note: The opinions expressed by Luke Webber are in no way supported *
*       by his employers, Luke Webber Consulting Services             *

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Speaking as a person who use to program in Delphi and has been forced to
program in VB5.
I think if you want to get a job in IT, you've either got to learn a more
recent version of Delphi and hope that somebody employs you, or take
advantage of the skills shortage and learn VB (if you can program in Delphi,
the drop down to VB will not be a problem).
You are more likely to be employed programming in VB than Delphi.

VB rules, but Delphi's cool.

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:23:36 +1100, "Scott Kane - MSA"

Quote
<m...@micronexus.net> wrote:
>Gary is correct on this.  Similar situation here in Australia.  Delphi
>developers are in demand and we have a smaller population than the UK (which
>makes it harder for a product to penetrate).  Don't rely to heavily on one
>persons view on a programming tool.  There's to much room for personal bias
>(and of course personal ignorance).  Of course - at the end of the day - it
>doesn't matter what an app is written in - the real test is does it work?

>Scott Kane

I agree, if it works - the tool must have been good enough, and thats
all you need to worry about.  On the other hand, I must admit that
Delphi 'appears' to be more professional than VB and likewise 'C++
Builder' more professional than Delphi.

At the end of the day, if the program you are developing includes an
installation wizard, then it can also look more 'expensive' (more
value for money) if it takes up more disks ... in such a case VB
strangely wins!?

I personally didn't want to continue using Visual Basic, since noone
looks at you as a 'real' programmer :-(  I moved onto Delphi, and
there has been an improvement in attitudes!

Whenever I dabble in C++ and assembler, thats when I feel like a real
programmer with a powerful language under my belt!

My own opinions :-)

Rob.

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Stephen Moran <flyingobje...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<34C87E39.4C5B...@hotmail.com>...

Quote
> As for VB, that unspeakable dog's
> dinner, I agree that it is more popular and still growing, as hordes of
> living dead punters stumble like punch-drunk boxers onto Microsoft's
> sucker punches.

I think your talents are being wasted with "computer" languages<g>.

Cool company title also.

--
Ernie Deel, EFD Systems
-----------------------------------------------
The more you know, the more luck you have

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Well, I would add some notes about Delphi in Brazil. Here VB is more
popular, but Delphi is simply exploding. Two years ago, only a few
people knew Delphi, but now everyone talks about it. The initial
proportion was 10 vbers / 1 delphist. Now we have 2 vbers / 1
delphist. Probably next year we'll have 1/1.

The thing I really love in Delphi is Object Pascal. It's a powerful,
readable and elegant language, I can really develop components, DLLs,
OCXs and much more using just one single tool. Of course, the IDE is
also pretty easy and well organized.

Also, for database commercial development, specially client/server,
Delphi is very powerful and stable.

My enthusiasm is easy to be seen. I would like to see more people
talking about Delphi in their respective countries. It's a very
interesting discussion.

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Rob Wilson schrieb in Nachricht <34c8b02f.3648...@LINUX.COMPD.COM>...

Quote
>I personally didn't want to continue using Visual Basic, since noone
>looks at you as a 'real' programmer :-(  I moved onto Delphi, and
>there has been an improvement in attitudes!
>Whenever I dabble in C++ and assembler, thats when I feel like a real
>programmer with a powerful language under my belt!
>My own opinions :-)
>Rob.

Of course, *REAL* programmers don't use such {*word*230} stuff like
compilers and assemblers. All they need is a pen, paper and a hex
editor.

Rudy Velthuis

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Quote

>Of course, *REAL* programmers don't use such {*word*230} stuff like
>compilers and assemblers. All they need is a pen, paper and a hex
>editor.

Pen and paper? {*word*230}. <g>
--
Jeremy Collins

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Rudy Velthuis <rvelth...@cww.de> wrote in article
<6ab2fb$lv...@demdwu11.telemedia.de>...

Quote

> Of course, *REAL* programmers don't use such {*word*230} stuff like
> compilers and assemblers. All they need is a pen, paper and a hex
> editor.

But what would you need the pen and paper for?

JJ.

--
Email: jjqu...@dircon.co.uk
Homepage: http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~jjquick/

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Gary is correct on this.  Similar situation here in Australia.  Delphi
developers are in demand and we have a smaller population than the UK (which
makes it harder for a product to penetrate).  Don't rely to heavily on one
persons view on a programming tool.  There's to much room for personal bias
(and of course personal ignorance).  Of course - at the end of the day - it
doesn't matter what an app is written in - the real test is does it work?

Scott Kane

Quote
Gary Reynolds wrote in message <01bd27db$bf75c750$c301ea9e@reb>...
>Visual Basic does seem to have a bit of a prescence in the UK, but i would
>also argue that Delphi is gainly greatly in popularity.......and is
>probably used now just as much commercially as VB.

>I work in the IT sector as a software developer/analyst, etc. and have seen
>a much more extensive Delphi prescence than i have Visual Basic.

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


Quote
Henry Hill wrote:

> If I may just throw this into the melting pot!

> I live near London (England, unless 'they've" moved it!).

> Over the past year I have been teaching myself Dephi (via a free give away
> of version 1 with a UK computer magazine).  Also I have been looking at SQL
> (via Oracle 7.0 reference manuals) and now feel I have quite a good feel for
> the two (I'm using SQL via ODBC to a Access V2.0 Database).

> I'm not directly employed in IT but wish to now make a move into this area.

> I recently went to a open day by an IT training and recruitment company, who
> I heard good reports about.  After a short logic test (which consisted of
> different symbols on which commands are actioned e.g. "invert", "reverse",
> "ignore" etc.) which I passed, I was offered two types of placement full or
> part time.

> Of the courses offered, there was RPG/AS 400, Oracle and Visual Basic.  On
> one of the advertising sheets these were listed and so was Boreland Delphi.
> I asked one of the reps if they did Delphi (as I was under the impression
> they didn't), to which his reply was "We got very little call for this tool,
> from our clients and its too specialised".

> Now I feel I've wasted my time and need to start all over again.  I actually
> was getting this feeling, over the past few months and did seem to me that
> while the US (and others I hope) have embraced Delphi, the UK seems less
> enthusiastic and Visual Basic rules by miles.  I would like to gauge your
> opinions on this...

> I hope that got your debating hats on..

> Stevie T..some where in England.

> tal...@ra.gtnet.gov.uk

I learn programming with MS BASIC 80 in a NEC PC 8001 computer. After, i
discovered TP3 on this computer, it was on CP/M, well, i was 14.

Then now, i work and i have to write many apps.

When i can choose the tool, i choose Delphi. Because it is easy, solid,
stable, beautiful, and everything that seems unimportant for many VB
developpers. It's also easy to learn. There are no traps everywhere.

But sometimes, VB is choosen before i can say anything. And then, the
battle begins. Because it is not as stable as it could be. Remember that
before VB there was MS BASIC and then QBasic. Basic is not object
oriented but MS wants to make it object oriented. It became a terrible
gaz plant ("usine a gaz" in french) : i mean that it's heavy and not
stable. There are traps every where, you must program at least six
months to find all the solutions to make a good app in a single pass...

Well, in France (yes, i'm from france), VB is well implanted. Because
it's MS. In France, when it's not MS, it means that it won't survive
more than 5 years. And so, programming something without MS tools is
considered as wisdomless.

About wisdom, i think that Delphi will survive in Windows world for
years, even if Borland sink another time... And if the worse happen,
Delphi doesn't need an editor to live, because its core is the more
solid i know.

And now, about recruitment. Delphi is more and more asked in France. For
each jobs i find, the damages were terribles. It has been very easy to
propose Delphi instead of the MS product.

As i said, VB is not easy to master. If Delphi programmers are not yet
asked, it's may be because enterprises have not yet spend enough money
in programmers years. But it won't last. Every Delphi programmers must
try VB and know what it is truely. Then we must say to our customers and
managers that VB is a waste in time and money... We must show the
knowledge base of microsoft, we must show what are the errors we must
because MS programmers are lazy...

I have to program with VB and it's always a nightmare for me. And when
it's a time critical app, it's a great nightmare, and when it's for an
automatic vending machine it's a nightmare for months...

Don't use VB (also ACCESS) and refuse all VB development as much as
possible. May be it will open the eyes of our great decision-makers !

Re:DELPHI, loved in the US, hated in the UK


VB is more popular
Delphi is more _successful_

By this I mean that Delphi apps get finished quicker, run better, are
easier to maintain and generally wow clients rather than just vaguely
'doing the job'. You get customer satisfaction and repeat orders galore
simply by using the better tool.

IMHO, it pays to stick with Delphi.

        Kult.

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