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Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?


2003-10-20 01:34:45 AM
cppbuilder37
mr_organic wrote:
Quote
The major benefit I had been hoping to get from C++BuilderX was a better
GUI builder and resource-editor.
Why? The open letter didn't announce any of it, IIRC. What kind of
resources are universal over different platforms, BTW?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"There is no idea so simple and powerful that you can't get
zillions of people to misunderstand it." -- Alan Kay
 
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Oscar Fuentes wrote:
Quote
"RJ" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:

[snip]

>Borland not only doesn't give good guidance, it simply DUMPS
>libraries and a new release to the total dismay of its users. And the
>TeamB'rs think we should just sit around and wait to see what Borland
>does! I don't think so.

Do not extend the view of two TeamB members (of which one is not a
BCB guy, nor a professional programmer) to the rest of the group.
Being the TeamB member who is not a professional programmer, but also one
who has his own business, I can only say that emotionally, I can
understand people wanting to start all over. But it does not make
business sense, IMO, to throw everything one has developed in the last
few years overboard *at this exact stage*.
Starting all over will throw people a lot further back than having to
wait a few more days or weeks.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is,
of course, in a state of sin."
- John von Neumann (1903-1957)
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
Starting all over will throw people a lot further back than having to
wait a few more days or weeks.
You are correct, but I think the problem lies elsewhere. It's precisely
in the *unknown* part of the story. People who have the burden of
taking decisions are operating with an enormous degree of uncertainty,
and all the problems with the open letters increase that uncertainty.
The highest the stake, the highest the uncertainty, the hardest it is
to keep strictly rational. Unless you are a Vulcan. :)
--
Ken [*The Team Formerly Known As D]
MoNBH/MDNPEI
planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/
Hey! Someone left a tagline here:
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Ken de Camargo Jr. [*TTFKAD] wrote:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

>Starting all over will throw people a lot further back than having to
>wait a few more days or weeks.

You are correct, but I think the problem lies elsewhere. It's precisely
in the unknown part of the story.
Yes, and I think it was said we will not be in the unknown very long
anymore.
Quote
People who have the burden of
taking decisions are operating with an enormous degree of uncertainty,
and all the problems with the open letters increase that uncertainty.
I know. I do understand the need for info, the sooner the better.
Quote
The highest the stake, the highest the uncertainty, the hardest it is
to keep strictly rational.
But business decisions require a high degree of rationality.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
-- Galileo Galilei
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
RJ wrote:

You don't know if Borland dumps the VCL yet. What is released now is
clearly not meant as a followup product for BCB.
I'm more concerned about CLX, but the point is the same - I need support for
the past and lots of time to change directions. If Borland won't fix past
bugs and tell us where they're going in the extended future, the big gorilla
software company will definitely win everything because they understand this
very basic point.
-RJ
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
Yes, and I think it was said we will not be in the unknown very long
anymore.
A number of times, and we still are. See the pattern? <g>
Quote
>The highest the stake, the highest the uncertainty, the hardest it
>is to keep strictly rational.
But business decisions require a high degree of rationality.
For sure. But people posting here do not necessarily conform to that.
I'd prescribe moderation to all parts involved. <g>
--
Ken [*The Team Formerly Known As D]
MoNBH/MDNPEI
planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/
Hey! Someone left a tagline here:
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
Quote
>Do not extend the view of two TeamB members (of which one is not a
>BCB guy, nor a professional programmer) to the rest of the group.

Being the TeamB member who is not a professional programmer, but also one
who has his own business,
IMO, your bussiness is of a different kind. You can get your tools
replaced on a short time (days?). It's only a matter of money. For
most software projects, replacing the main tool with an incompatible
one requires a long time of hard work. It costed me a full year.
Quote
I can only say that emotionally, I can understand people wanting to
start all over. But it does not make business sense, IMO, to throw
everything one has developed in the last few years overboard *at
this exact stage*.

Starting all over will throw people a lot further back than having to
wait a few more days or weeks.
You still don't understand the real problem. Each day that passes with
no answers about the future of BCB and the VCL, Borland loses
credit. It's impressive the level of incompetence Borland is
demonstrating with the CBX issue. BCB people not only feels
"obsolesced", they are realizing that their tool provider doesn't
deserve their confidence anymore. Nobody with a clue wrt software
development would choose a vendor that does what Borland is doing.
Hence, the people who elected Borland on the past are hurried to
correct their mistake, possibly out of pure shame.
--
Oscar
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Ken de Camargo Jr. [*TTFKAD] wrote:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

>Yes, and I think it was said we will not be in the unknown very long
>anymore.

A number of times, and we still are. See the pattern? <g>
They know they'll have to come up with something, I think.
Quote
>But business decisions require a high degree of rationality.

For sure. But people posting here do not necessarily conform to that.
I'd prescribe moderation to all parts involved. <g>
Or Valium, perhaps? <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Wit is educated insolence."
- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

I think the main issue here, is that Borland doesn't know what it's doing. I
mean, how long has it taken to get this open letter out, and it has been
mysteriously held up by the "legal department".
If Borland had a concrete roadmap (even internally), there would be no need for
this to happen, because everyone would be clear on where the company, and thus
each individual product is heading.
"Oscar Fuentes" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
>A number of times, and we still are. See the pattern? <g>
They know they'll have to come up with something, I think.
I hope so.
Quote
>I'd prescribe moderation to all parts involved. <g>
Or Valium, perhaps? <g>
At this juncture I'd go for something stronger, like chlorpromazine. :)
--
Ken [*The Team Formerly Known As D]
MoNBH/MDNPEI
planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/
Hey! Someone left a tagline here:
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

You're absolutely right. It doesn't make much business sense to toss
everything aside just yet. Having said that, if a big project were coming up
then something with a future is a necessity.
Personally, i'm not particularly happy with Microsoft Visual products. I
just don't like them or find them easy to use. Borland is easier but a bit
unwieldy in places.
I like the idea behind wxWindows and shall investigate that further.
Rhys Sage.
www.sageworld.freeserve.co.uk for
code snippets and software downloads.
"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Being the TeamB member who is not a professional programmer, but also one
who has his own business, I can only say that emotionally, I can
understand people wanting to start all over. But it does not make
business sense, IMO, to throw everything one has developed in the last
few years overboard *at this exact stage*.

Starting all over will throw people a lot further back than having to
wait a few more days or weeks.
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Oscar Fuentes wrote:
Quote
IMO, your bussiness is of a different kind. You can get your tools
replaced on a short time (days?).
Not at all. To install a new chair, some heavy rebuilding is necessary.
Quote
It's only a matter of money.
No, sorry.
Quote
For most software projects, replacing the main tool with an incompatible
one requires a long time of hard work. It costed me a full year.
Exactly. That is exactly why I don't understand people jumping ship right
now, instead of waiting to see if they can perhaps avoid that, and
continue in the same style as they do now.
Quote
You still don't understand the real problem. Each day that passes with
no answers about the future of BCB and the VCL, Borland loses
credit.
I very well understand that. And you can be sure that all members of
TeamB understand that.
Quote
It's impressive the level of incompetence Borland is demonstrating with
the CBX issue.
I will refrain from a comment, here. <g>
Quote
BCB people not only feels "obsolesced", they are realizing that their
tool provider doesn't deserve their confidence anymore. Nobody with a
clue wrt software development would choose a vendor that does what
Borland is doing.
Unless you are severely hooked into BCB already.
Quote
Hence, the people who elected Borland on the past are hurried to
correct their mistake, possibly out of pure shame.
Shame is not a good adviser, IMO. Like I said, on the emotional level, I
fully understand this. On the business level, it may not be so wise to go
that far, exactly for the reason you mentioned: it takes a lot of time
and money, if one jumps ship.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eigh{*word*249}."
-- Albert Einstein
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
>Nobody with a clue wrt software development would choose a vendor
>that does what Borland is doing.
Unless you are severely hooked into BCB already.
Precisely. One may choose not to be in that situation ever again.
--
Ken
planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Ronald McDonald wrote:
Quote

I think the main issue here, is that Borland doesn't know what it's
doing. I mean, how long has it taken to get this open letter out, and
it has been mysteriously held up by the "legal department".
I think that Borland knows what they are doing, but are perhaps doing a
lot (too much) at the moment. Don't forget that BorCon is very soon now.
I know that is not an *excuse* for the terrible info policy, but it is an
explanation.
Quote
If Borland had a concrete roadmap (even internally), there would be no
need for this to happen, because everyone would be clear on where the
company, and thus each individual product is heading.
What makes you think there is no internal roadmap? Do you really think
CBX came into existence overnight, just becasue it was never announced?
The problem is that they are still too secretive about the roadmap.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"The backbone of surprise is fusing speed with secrecy."
-- Von Clausewitz (1780-1831)
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Ken de Camargo Jr. wrote:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

>>Nobody with a clue wrt software development would choose a vendor
>>that does what Borland is doing.
>Unless you are severely hooked into BCB already.

Precisely. One may choose not to be in that situation ever again.
But that would mean jumping ship, although you don't know yet, if it is
necessary at all. Considering the cost (money and time) of doing so, I
would want to be very sure if that was a wise decision.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes."
- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)