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Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?


2003-10-20 07:07:25 PM
cppbuilder76
Dean Hill wrote:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
>But exactly now? What if Borland had not announced CBCX, would you
>have done the same?

We would have committed to CB6 with possibly disastrous consequences.
You don't know that, do you?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"I worship the quicksand he walks in."
-- Art Buchwald
 
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Shane Stump wrote:
Quote
I have a business to run and I can't afford to get lost (again) because
Borland doesn't want to provide a guidence roadmap.

As I said earlier, all of my new work will be .NET.
Oh, your new work. What about your existing work?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

CrewGBR wrote:
Quote
"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:xn0d4qcpei9o0501nrudyspc@none-8cxr845nph...
>
>IOW, unless something was forcing me to make a decision right now
>(e.g. new lange range project), I would first wait and see.

Methinks the problem is deeper than just lacking piece of information. I
don't think even the most palatable open letter can change the situation
now.
Perhaps not for you.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing."
- Wernher Von Braun (1912-1977)
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

CrewGBR wrote:
Quote
"Gillmer J. Derge (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:3f936010$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>
>Then why does anyone care about the letter at all? If the letter
>can't possibly change anything, what's the point of Borland writing
>it, and what's the point of getting upset that it hasn't been posted
>yet? Since the letter isn't going to change anything, let's just
>pretend you've already read it and move on.

And you missed my point completely.
But I didn't (and neither did Gillmer, AFAICS). You are worried about
Borland's lack of commitment. If you think so, why wait for the open
letter, and why not switch immediately?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"The mistakes are all waiting to be made."
- chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower (1887-1956) on the
game's opening position
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Shane Stump wrote:
Quote
>And obviously you couldn't afford to take the time to trim your quotes
>either.
>
You are so witty!
No, I was pointing you to the enormous overquote.
Quote
I didn't say I threw everything away. I said I would NOT be starting
any new work in Borland.
Oh, OK.
Quote
Because Borland has a track record of letting the C++ community down.
Not IMO. Building a totally new product for the C++ community can hardly
be called "letting it down". Problem is just that the first release
didn't turn out to be (yet), what most BCB users had expected.
Quote
>I am not saying you made the right or the wrong decision, since that
>is completely up to you, but such things do make me wonder.

You act like my decision was sudden and without thought. I mentioned I
had been through this BEFORE with OWL.
Yes, I got that.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Maybe this world is another planet's Hell."
- Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Dean Hill wrote:
Quote
1) You need to upgrade your hardware (256Meg RAM is not enough).
2) You must spend $2500 per developer (4)
3) All the good things that I told you about (Indy, RAD etc) are not
available any more. I know that RAD will be available but it is not
now and we are dealing with people that are used to it. 4) COM support
on Windows. 5) You won't be left out in the cold in the future.
I mentioned some of these concerns already, in a reply to R.F.Pels in the
CBX non-tech group. I am aware of them.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"I'm not going to get into the ring with Tolstoy."
- Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961)
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
You don't know that, do you?
he conceded that with the word, "possibly".
--
.. P.
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
>We would have committed to CB6 with possibly disastrous consequences.

You don't know that, do you?
That's the point. I don't know. I suppose uncertainty is always worse
then knowing. Even if it is bad news at least you know where you are
going. Had we gone the CB6 route and committed a substantial amount of
money to a discontinued architecture (VCL), I would have found myself
with a lot of explaining to do. That makes me nervous. When the open
letters are release I will probably be much more relaxed but until then
it was a very close call for me.
I personally love Delphi. That is what made me try and convince
management that Borland should be the tool vendor of choice. Borland,
however good their tools are, seem to keep making it difficult to
support them <g>. It would really help if they released a clear roadmap
for the next 2-3 years. As a smaller company, this is probably not an
option as they would have to keep revisiting it as and when technology
changes.
Cheers
Dean
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
Dean Hill wrote:


>1) You need to upgrade your hardware (256Meg RAM is not enough).
>2) You must spend $2500 per developer (4)
>3) All the good things that I told you about (Indy, RAD etc) are not
This should have been "All the good things that I told them about" <g>.
Quote
>available any more. I know that RAD will be available but it is not
>now and we are dealing with people that are used to it. 4) COM support
>on Windows. 5) You won't be left out in the cold in the future.

I mentioned some of these concerns already, in a reply to R.F.Pels in the
CBX non-tech group. I am aware of them.
My message was meant to indicate that some of us were under time
constraints and this has made us commit to certain things. It's not
always so easy to wait. You seem to be the one TeamB'er that
understands the views of the dissidents.
Now if only we could get Opera to take over the communications role at
Borland. We could get an update on her show every week. :-)
Dean
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Oscar Fuentes wrote:
Quote
"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:

>>Borland says they are switching to VCL/Win32.
>
>Did you mean .NET? Win32 would not be a switch. <g>

Yea, sorry.

>And no, Borland are not saying that.

Then, I'm really confused. I thought that .Net is were Delphi is
heading to, with one update to VCL/Win32 in the pipe.
They haven't said what the update will be, and how long it will be
updated. With "update" they can mean many things, from simple patches to
a completely new D8 for Win32.
Quote
It is already known that the compiler has an EDG front-end. Because of
this, I'm pretty confident that the compiler will not support the VCL.
But the old compiler, which provides the extensions, may still be
supported? Perhaps the VCL can be used in C++ in the way RAD has been
done in Java or C#?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"
-- General George S. Patton (1885-1945)
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Dean Hill wrote:
Quote
My message was meant to indicate that some of us were under time
constraints and this has made us commit to certain things. It's not
always so easy to wait. You seem to be the one TeamB'er that
understands the views of the dissidents.
The others seem to have been away for the weekend, but I *know* they
understand the dissident views as well. And Borland also knows we do.
Quote
Now if only we could get Opera to take over the communications role at
Borland. We could get an update on her show every week. :-)
Did you mean Opera the browser, or Oprah Winfrey?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"A man can't get rich if he takes proper care of his family."
- Navaho saying.
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
Did you mean Opera the browser, or Oprah Winfrey?
Oprah Winfrey. Cool lady.
Cheers
Dean
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Ed Mulroy [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
In combination with the writing style the use of a nom-de-plume of
"mr_organic" at "yourmamashouse.com"
I'm glad you said 'in combination with' seeing as even TeamB make use of
'nom-de-plume's' <g>.
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

"Adam Versteegen" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in news:3f93dd41$1
@newsgroups.borland.com:
Quote
Ed Mulroy [TeamB] wrote:

>In combination with the writing style the use of a nom-de-plume of
>"mr_organic" at "yourmamashouse.com"

I'm glad you said 'in combination with' seeing as even TeamB make use of
'nom-de-plume's' <g>.

--
Vesty.

Actually, the "yourmamashouse.com" domain was a real one, once upon a time.
Back the day, I had a free e-mail account there and thought it had a nice
"street" vibe. I've kept it as a spam-filter address ever since the
hosting company went bust (although I'm sure the domain is still around;
it's probably a {*word*40}o site or something).
mr_organic
 

Re:Re: Has Borland finally gone mad, or are they just trying to loss all C++ programmers so they don't have to support CBuilder?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
>Precisely. One may choose not to be in that situation ever again.

But that would mean jumping ship, although you don't know yet, if it is
necessary at all. Considering the cost (money and time) of doing so, I
would want to be very sure if that was a wise decision.
I can wait, but this wait is exxxxxtremely frustrating, especially when it
keeps getting postponed.