Board index » cppbuilder » Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1


2004-11-17 05:49:43 PM
cppbuilder35
Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
I've ordered a copy of Office 2K instead.
Where? On Ebay or something? Office 2K is from 1999! I don't think you can
even buy Office XP anymore. Why dont you buy Office 2005? Too
expensive? ;-)
Cheers
Gunnar
 
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Gunnar Beushausen < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
[...] Why dont you buy Office 2005? Too
expensive? ;-)
I am still working with Word/Excel95 and
think that it is the best Office around.
No dancing paper clips and the like, and
just about all the features I need.
Quote
Cheers
Prost! :)
Quote
Gunnar
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Gunnar Beushausen wrote:
Quote
It's not unstable
YMMV. Mine gets confused when formatting paragraphs and AVed once while
I was trying to sort the mess out.
Quote
You can tell OO to do
the same thing too and therefore incredibly increase startup time
(while decreasing boot time).
I wasn't aware of that.
Quote
>It basically feels like what it is:Free software.

Plain silly.
It's my opinion as a user.
I don't use any form of 'office-ware' very much and I installed OO
because I wanted to exchange the occasional spreadsheet with other
people. I also thought it might be a good idea to replace my copy of
Office 95.
The problem with Calc was that exchanging spreadsheets was right out.
The ones I exchange (or would like to) feature drop down lists and OO
Calc seems confused about what to do with them. I think from playing
with it that it can only assign a drop down list on a per-column basis.
Excel can do it on a per cell basis. OTOH Calc also seems to give up
adding items to the list after a while.
The issues with the wordpro just irritated me. A wordprocessor that
can't reliably format paragraphs is not going to last long on my system.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Lester Caine wrote:
Quote
>It basically feels like what it is:Free software.

Not having any niggles with Office at all?
No but I'm not a major user. I just write the occasional letter or
development design/proposal document. My problems with OO struck while
trying to write a short letter to my parents. I'll concede that my
reaction was probably more from my gut than my head but as a user I
reserve the right to react that way. I think I was incensed that a
wordprocessor couldn't handle a four paragraph letter that wasn't even
using templates.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Gunnar Beushausen wrote:
Quote
Where? On Ebay or something? Office 2K is from 1999! I don't think
you can even buy Office XP anymore. Why dont you buy Office 2005? Too
expensive? ;-)
Yup.
The thing is I operate at home as a user. I want things simple, I want
them to work first time and I don't want to have to muck about. OO
failed me so I went for another product that I already use at work and
know to be reliable.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Hendrik Schober wrote:
Quote
I am still working with Word/Excel95 and
think that it is the best Office around.
No dancing paper clips and the like, and
just about all the features I need.
Same here except that the version of Excel is a little too old for the
spreadsheets I want to load.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Mike Margerum < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
Quote
>Unix world is fairly simple: programmers had their own ideas of what
>constituted "best in class". (Vi or EMACS, to radically
>oversimplify.)
>
More of a lack of choice. I've used emacs for 15 years and while it's
a capable editor, it's hardly a replacement for a real IDE. KDevelop
is coming along nicely but it ain't delphi.
Just out of curiousity, what do you feel emacs lacks? I feel exactly
the opposite: I've never found an IDE to match emacs.
--
Chris (TeamB);
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

RAD designer, wizards, design time datasets, database explorer, class
explorer, code completion, integrated help, flyover variable views,
background compiling, on the fly syntax checking, code refactoring plus
about 100 other things i've probrably missed. The whole component
oriented aspect of delphi is powerful and makes developing an app so
much faster. All of this applies 3 fold when it comes to data driven
websites.
How long would it take you in C++ and emacs to build a single QT/wx/GTK
form that hit a database and had one editable grid and one master detail
relationship on it?
Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
Mike Margerum < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:


>>Unix world is fairly simple: programmers had their own ideas of what
>>constituted "best in class". (Vi or EMACS, to radically
>>oversimplify.)
>>
>
>More of a lack of choice. I've used emacs for 15 years and while it's
>a capable editor, it's hardly a replacement for a real IDE. KDevelop
>is coming along nicely but it ain't delphi.


Just out of curiousity, what do you feel emacs lacks? I feel exactly
the opposite: I've never found an IDE to match emacs.

 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Quote
The same thing is going to happen with Linux IDEs. The next version of
KDevelop is going to have a RAD Forms Designer integrated. And remember,
even Borland was considering of using the open source wxWidgets as a
foundation of it's CBuilderX GUI system. They wouldn't did so if their own
products (like VCL) were better.

I agree Gunnar, KDevelop has come a long way as is actually pretty nice
but IDE development is a moving target. This ALM stuff that Borland is
developing will eventually become the way to build applications and it
will be a long long time before the open source community catches up.
Quote
Software developers can't risk loosing their work and money just because
their IDE vendor stops their Software just because it's only returning 5x
the investment instead of 10x. So in the future, when open source IDEs will
become good enough, everybody _will_ stick to it and won't be using
commercial software any more. Its just too risky, like any BCB user knows.

You've certainly got a point there. I've become apprehensive at
commiting to delphi/BCB becuase of Borlands lack of a stance on where
they are going with BCB. If delphi sales drop, will they just drop that
too and commit soley to .net/java?
I would love to use mono/.net but it has to be at least as close to the
productivity I get from delphi/BCB.
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Yeh but with wx there is no real component model and events are
simulated with macros. The thing that makes delphi powerful is its
component model and its 3rd party component support. You bascially get
the widget set built into wx and if it doesn't suffice then you have to
write it yourself.
Andreas Hausladen wrote:
Quote
Gunnar Beushausen wrote:


>They wouldn't did so if their own products (like VCL) were
>better.


I think it was because VCL is based on the WinAPI (and Delphi language).
And the CLX is based on a too old version of Qt. Using wxWidgets was a
step to get support from the community who is bugfixing wxWidgets and to
be able to compile applications without "any" changes under different
platforms what VCL can't do.


 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Quote
>It basically feels like what it is:Free software.


Plain silly. OO is just a free version of Suns StarOffice wich is commercial
like MS Office too.

I tried to use OO instead of office but the rest of my coworkers were
less than pleased when they received a word document that I editied.
There 99% claim is FUD. If you don't have to exchange with other people
using word, than OO is a fine word processor.
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Mike Margerum < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
Quote
RAD designer
Agreed.
Quote
, wizards,
Agreed, but I don't miss them.
Quote
design time datasets,
That's a subset of RAD, so isn't this repeating #1?
Quote
database explorer
I'm not even sure what this is. :)
Quote
, class explorer
Ah, this I disagree.
linux.about.com/cs/linux101/g/oo-browser.htm
Quote
, code completion,
Not quite as nice as Borland has, but close enough. You can type in a
few characters in a buffer, and then hit M-/ it'll act like
tab-completion. You can cycle through my repeating the key sequence.
Quote
integrated help,
meta-info
Quote
flyover variable views,
agreed.
Quote
background compiling,
Of course it does.
Quote
on the fly syntax checking,
True. Do any C++ ides do that?
Quote
code refactoring
Not as defined by borland.
Quote
plus about 100 other things i've probrably missed.
There are probably hundreds of things in emacs that other ides don't
have too. It goes both ways, but the fancy gui stuff is what's
usually seen. Buffer handling, rectangular editing, navigation,
macros, customization, ad lib function definition, historical edits,
advanced kill-ring retrievals, multi-split-screen views (horizontal
and vertical), point stacks, very intelligent code indenting and
highlighting, and so on. These are more fundamental to editing and
not so much of the "point and click your way to success", but unless
I'm working on writing a GUI, this is the most important part of the
editor.
Quote
The whole component oriented aspect of delphi is powerful and makes
developing an app so much faster. All of this applies 3 fold when
it comes to data driven websites.
Ok, but that's including the compiler and included libraries, which
emacs isn't trying to be. Nothing prevents you, however, from running
a GUI designer off to the side. Since it's only used periodically,
being in a different window is immaterial to me.
Quote
How long would it take you in C++ and emacs to build a single
QT/wx/GTK form that hit a database and had one editable grid and one
master detail relationship on it?
I don't know, I've never done it. I don't even know what a "master
detail relationship" is, so it would probably take me a while even
with BCB or Delphi. :)
--
Chris (TeamB);
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Gunnar Beushausen wrote:

>Where? On Ebay or something? Office 2K is from 1999! I don't think
>you can even buy Office XP anymore. Why dont you buy Office 2005? Too
>expensive? ;-)

Yup.

The thing is I operate at home as a user. I want things simple, I want
them to work first time and I don't want to have to muck about. OO
failed me so I went for another product that I already use at work and
know to be reliable.

I can understand that. Thats the reason why i switched to Linux, because i
didn't want the security and instability hassles you've got with using
Winwods. For example a few hours ago i've downloaded JBuilder Enterprise
Trial and installed it on a a fresh XP installation. After unzipping the
download (with the standard XP program) it comlained that there was no
JavaVM installed. I first thought the download was corrupted, but then i
remembered that MS software is total {*word*99} and install WinZip. After
unzipping the files with that utility, everything went fine...
Cheers
Gunnar
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Mike Margerum wrote:
Quote
I tried to use OO instead of office but the rest of my coworkers were
less than pleased when they received a word document that I editied.
There 99% claim is FUD. If you don't have to exchange with other people
using word, than OO is a fine word processor.
I'm doing exactly this on a regular basis. I've never encountered problems.
Maybe you are using an old version? prior to version 1.1 OO didn't
export/import MS files correctly. Nowadays everything is fine.
Cheers
Gunnar
 

Re:Re: Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Gunnar Beushausen wrote:
YMMV. Mine gets confused when formatting paragraphs and AVed once while
I was trying to sort the mess out.
Strange. What version did you download? 1.1 is very stable, maybe you've
donloaded the preview release of the next version? That one is unstable
indeed. But thats an Alpha version.
Quote

>You can tell OO to do
>the same thing too and therefore incredibly increase startup time
>(while decreasing boot time).
I wasn't aware of that.
Yes it's got a QuickStart option somewhere.
Cheers
Gunnar