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Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?


2008-03-04 04:32:20 AM
cppbuilder63
Dave Nottage [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Not having anything to do with your reality doesn't make it nonsense.

Is that, like, quadruple negation? Or just triple? ;)
 
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Yogi Yang 007 wrote:
[snip]
Quote
What use are such edition on which you can't do any kind of real
development. The same thing has been done in the past under the name of
If you do real development, then you can do at least two things:
1. Use full-blown products for which you pay, or
2. Create components in code at run-time.
Quote
ort for Database. I am still using Delphi 6 Personal Edition
personally and thanks to KaDAO I am able to developer database oriented
software. If this library did not exist then this version would have
been a waste of time.

This hypothetical makes no sense to me whatsoever. Both exist and you
can do your development.
[snip]
Quote

Has Borland or CG ever done this till date? I have not come across any
such incident....

Unfortunately, CodeGear doesn't have a stream of revenue from a monopoly
products to support other offerinngs.
Quote
All that they have done, for helping Developers, is hired a few Fanatic
Pascal/Delphi developers and appointed them as TeamB for supporting
Pascal/Delphi developers with merge pays.

Sorry, I cannot parse that last statement.
Quote
The scenario at M$ has always been different right from the start.
Yes - crush the competition with an unfair practices.
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

"Brian Moelk" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:47c96f68$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
If one thinks it doesn't apply to them, they could simply ask themselves
what other programming tools/frameworks have they experimented with
(yes, actually tried to do something) other than Delphi in the last
year? Have they seriously considered building something with that tool?
Then ask if they compared it to Delphi and wished it was more like
Delphi without trying to see how different isn't necessarily better or
worse. That different could actually mean that some aspects are better
and some are worse? That some tools are better suited for some tasks
versus others?

Have they, in earnest, tried to understand the culture and perspective
of the programming community evangelizing the tool? Or have they merely
viewed it through the narrow prism of a Delphi-centric perspective or
even Algol based languages in general?
Why should I care about other packages? Delphi does everything I need,
I simply don't have the time to see what could potentially be better. Why
on earth would I spend a lot of time checking out the latest flavor of the
month when I can write my next program in Delphi with far less effort than
it takes to learn some other (currently popular) language/environment?
Quote
When discussing *wide* *open* aspects of the development landscape (e.g.
pricing of Delphi relative to other tools), the usual comparison is with
VS.NET. Why? Is it a Microsoft/Windows/.NET centric perspective coming
through? Is it because of an anti-Microsoft bias? How many times do
Eclipse, Netbeans, FlexBuilder, IntelliJ, Komodo get mentioned? Heck,
even CodeGear's other offerings: JBuilder, 3rdRail, Delphi for PHP?
Granted FPC/Lazarus get mentioned frequently but I think that also
underscores my point to some degree.
What are Eclipse, Netbeans, FlexBuilder, IntelliJ, Komodo? Ah, you know
what? I don't give a damn. By the time I would actually NEED them, they
will likely be replaced by the next 'greatest thing ever'.
Quote
I don't have any concrete/justifiable answers to any of those questions,
but it does make me think about how Delphi developers think about Delphi
and CodeGear. It also makes me think about why they choose and continue
to choose Delphi.
Productivity. Familiarity. It does everything we need. We hate the C syntax.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

"42" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
What are Eclipse, Netbeans, FlexBuilder, IntelliJ, Komodo? Ah, you know
what? I don't give a damn. By the time I would actually NEED them, they
will likely be replaced by the next 'greatest thing ever'.
Oh, you mean Perl? Oops, that was the past greatest thing ever....
Van
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

42 wrote:
Quote
Productivity. Familiarity. It does everything we need. We hate the C syntax.
Party on with Delphi! I'm quite certain you aren't alone in your
perspective.
Hey Bruce are you reading?
--
Brian Moelk
Brain Endeavor LLC
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Brian Moelk wrote:
Quote
Party on with Delphi! I'm quite certain you aren't alone in your
perspective.

Hey Bruce are you reading?
Absolutely. Party on with Delphi!
And as I said before, I'm not making any decisions in a vacuum. I have
used a number of other languages and tools, some on a daily basis, and
I still prefer Delphi.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

MS seems to be quite agressive on the programming tools side right now. I
donīt know if it is a global offer but here in Scandinavia, registered
University/College students "Can download a MS Programming Tool package
with a street value of $8000 for free". Apparently the tools will be "theirs
forever" but do not qualify for future upgrades. The journalist ask's an MS
representative "if this isn't just a massive attack on Open Source to
ultimately make the programming tool business an MS-only affair". The MS guy
replies that "the software creating industry should only be glad that more
people learn to code".
www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/it_telekom/datorer/article68561.ece
In Swedish but you can see what is included.
Goran
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Bruce McGee wrote:
Quote
And as I said before, I'm not making any decisions in a vacuum. I have
used a number of other languages and tools, some on a daily basis, and
I still prefer Delphi.
FWIW, I wasn't referring to you in my previous comments. I just think
42's post demonstrated what I've seen quite well.
--
Brian Moelk
Brain Endeavor LLC
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Yogi Yang 007 wrote:
Quote
>
>Now you have encountered one that hasn't. Never had any programming
>in school (except some class in university where BASIC was used). I
>learned Pascal (and many other languages) by myself.

I have seen very few programmers who are motivated to your extent.
And as usual all self made programmers generally learn a lot of
languages just for the heck of it!
Then you don't know many programmers. I learnt dBase in 1984, then
Prolog, Assembly and Pascal in 1987. The rest, as they say, is history.
:o)
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Quote

I like it best the way Andreas Hausladen does it in his latest Delphi
DevExtensions. Hitting Home will take you to column 1. If you are in column 1
it will take you to the first non-white space.

Now that is a workable solution. I would prefer to use it.
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Quote

Well, that's one point I have to disagree with you. I hate it when
pressing the "home" key does not bring me to column 1. That's because I
use to copy the entire line with its indentation, and not the characters
beneath it.
Oh, and by the way, the "intelligent" indentation system when pasting
text in VS editor is annoying at best.
Press the Home key twice to reach column 1. But like you pressing Home
key twice is also a headache for me as I have to remember that and this
remembering new, new things seems to take up more space in my Mind than
the anything else.
My point is that this kind of features should be available built-in in
the IDE and there should be options to activate them if required instead
of installing experts to get such functionality.
I am also missing the Auto code formatting in VB 6!
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Quote

Like VB behaved, in former times. The first press takes you to the first
character, the next to column 1. Where I ever wished that it behaved the
opposite way - just as you mention, col 1 first, then char 1 ;-)

DoDi I agree with you totally. Also navigating the insertion point using
Ctrl+Arrow keys (left/Right) is also not working as it works in other
software.
I also wish CG would add the Auto Formatting of code to the IDE....
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Quote

Then you don't know many programmers. I learnt dBase in 1984, then
Prolog, Assembly and Pascal in 1987. The rest, as they say, is history.
In short you have toiled on languages which were very hard to learn and
use or were limited in functionality.
I from day one am using a very flexible and easy to learn language (VB)
which increases my productivity far beyond the languages that you have
use in the past.
In fact I was learning to develop software in C for Windows 3.0 but
knowing C (to whatever extent) in the DOS world did not help here (in
windows) and the learning curve was very steep as one has to learn the
inner working of Windows to even write a few lines of code. During that
time I saw VB 2. It felt light years a head of the development tools of
that time. No messing with code (or inner working of windows) for
creating and placing controls on a form, etc. just draw the controls on
a visual form, double click a control, write the code and you are done.
Having working knowledge of BASICA/GW BASIC/TB/QB I was immediately
productive in it.
I immediately took the decision and ditched C altogether..... You
probably did not try to use VB (mind at that time developing windows
based software in Pascal was also a chore equivalent to C). Windows
based software development became easy only and only after Delphi was
released but before that programming for Windows in Pascal was a
nightmare at best.
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

To me it's not only the cost. I have Delphi 2006, which I got for a nice
upgrade price (I think around AUD400) when it came out. I could easily
afford D 2007, but looking at the What's New list
(dn.codegear.com/article/36608), there's not enough in there to
warrant the upgrade pain, especially at that price. If I look at the New
Components list, I can only wonder what this upgrade is all about. Sure, a
Vista theme enabled IDE is nice, but so what?
As for .net, I rather go with VS.
----
Martin
 

Re:Re: (Microsoft) The Future of Delphi?

Yogi Yang 007 wrote:
Quote
>
>Then you don't know many programmers. I learnt dBase in 1984, then
>Prolog, Assembly and Pascal in 1987. The rest, as they say, is history.

In short you have toiled on languages which were very hard to learn and
use or were limited in functionality.

I from day one am using a very flexible and easy to learn language (VB)
which increases my productivity far beyond the languages that you have
use in the past.

In fact I was learning to develop software in C for Windows 3.0 but
knowing C (to whatever extent) in the DOS world did not help here (in
windows) and the learning curve was very steep as one has to learn the
inner working of Windows to even write a few lines of code. During that
time I saw VB 2. It felt light years a head of the development tools of
that time. No messing with code (or inner working of windows) for
creating and placing controls on a form, etc. just draw the controls on
a visual form, double click a control, write the code and you are done.
Having working knowledge of BASICA/GW BASIC/TB/QB I was immediately
productive in it.

I immediately took the decision and ditched C altogether..... You
probably did not try to use VB (mind at that time developing windows
based software in Pascal was also a chore equivalent to C). Windows
based software development became easy only and only after Delphi was
released but before that programming for Windows in Pascal was a
nightmare at best.
So, in other words, you learned programming (from day one, in your own
words) in a system that required you to know nothing about the system
you were designing for. You started to learn a different language, the
one that is still used to this day in writing drivers, embedded code,
etc., and decided it wasn't worth while to understand it.
Chee Wee, on the other hand, learned languages that taught him a LOT
about the requirements of the systems he was programming for -- and I
daresay that much of what he learned is guiding his thinking today.
Hmmm...
Who should I consider the better programmer...
David Erbas-White