Board index » cppbuilder » It's Wednesday, and...

It's Wednesday, and...


2003-11-06 06:25:10 AM
cppbuilder52
Here it is on Wednesday, the week of BorCon.
I just took a peek in the Delphi non-tech group to see what's going on.
Lots of discussion from folks about Delphi things at BorCon.
Compare that with what is being discussed in this group from BorCon (or
even, frankly, in the CBX non-tech group).
Just a thought...
David Erbas-White
 
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

"David Erbas-White" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
I just took a peek in the Delphi non-tech group to see
what's going on.
Lots of discussion from folks about Delphi things at BorCon.

Compare that with what is being discussed in this group from
BorCon (or even, frankly, in the CBX non-tech group).
Frankly, there were surprisingly very few CBX-related sessions, whereas
there were quite a few for Delphi. However, there were a couple of CBX
session and information was released, such as the following (just to name a
few):
1) CBX is targetting more platforms and more of the overall C++ marketplace
(there is much more out there than just VCL for Windows). Win32/GUI
development is just a piece of the overall market, and with Microsoft
pushing away the native developers in favor of .Net, Borland wants to be
there to pick up the slack for the Win32 users, and then to branch out in
the other platforms where C++ is in high demand (Unix, mobile, etc) as well.
As such...
2) ... In its first release, CBX was NOT targetting VCL users at all (that
has been officially stated now). That is not to say that VCL users were
ignored, far from it. They just weren't being targetted until later.
3) There is a v2.0 release of CBX in the works, targetted for release within
the next few months.
4) CBX v2.0 will include the full featured compiler, the full featured
Designer and Object Inspector (they did demonstrate the current Designer and
it did work for a couple of different frameworks, namely wxWindows and Java
Beans for demonstration purposes).
5) Many VCL who did attend the CBX sessions did (quite verbally and
articulately) voice their concerns, frustrations, and wishes for VCL's
future with C++. As such, JP LeBlanc has stated that there will *most
likely* be a VCL bridge implemented in CBX v2.0 such that existing BCB
projects *can* be opened, edited, designed, and updated natively under the
new CBX environment using the current VCL (whether that will be BCB's or
Delphi's current VCL, they did not say - hopefully it will be the latter).
6) If/Once implemented, the VCL bridge will allow current projects to be
brought into the CBX IDE and maintained from there instead of needing BCB
anymore. However, the VCL probably *will not* be updated any further after
that point. Win32/VCL development as it currently stands is not being
focused on anymore for long-term plans, expect for in Delphi. In C++, it
would only be a stepping stone to allow existing projects to live on within
the CBX environement using the existing VCL until the programmer sees fit to
eventually migrate their code to one of several new future directions later
on as Longhorn approaches release. Namely, either re-write the code to use
the wxWindows framework for cross-platforms, or else re-write the code to
Managed C++ for .NET (which CBX will eventually support directly, possibly
with VCL.Net from Delphi v8) in order to continue with Windows-only
development. Microsoft is really pushing Windows developers to .Net, and
Borland is following along with that strategy. Borland does recognize that
Win32 is not dead yet, and that Longhorn (the next version of Windows) is
several years away, and that current applications need to be maintained.
Thus the VCL bridge will probably be included in the meantime to keep things
rolling until then.
7) ActiveX/COM and other existing BCB technologies will probably be
introduced into CBX later on as well (and yes, they will probably get new
updates for fixes to existing problems and such, at least at first).
8) TELL BORLAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT/NEED IN CBX AND WHY!!!!!! Send an
email to XXXX@XXXXX.COM and make your voices heard!
I didn't write down any specific notes while I was there, this is coming
from memory, so I may be a little off in a couple of details. I'm sure
others will step in with corrections/elaborations.
Gambit
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Rob Allen wrote:
Quote
Can you imagine how much better it would have been if those 2
snippets of information had been stated officially when BCBX
launched? :)
The same thought occurred to me, yes.
--
Ken
planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/
 

{smallsort}

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
However, there were a couple of CBX session and information was
released,
such as the following (just to name a few):
Thanks Remy, this is useful to know!
--
Kristofer
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

In message <3faa1be6$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, "Remy Lebeau (TeamB)"
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes
Quote

Thanks Remy for the report. Most enlightening and answers my most
pressing questions enough for me to be prepared to wait for BCBX to get
there.
Quote
2) ... In its first release, CBX was NOT targetting VCL users at all (that
has been officially stated now). That is not to say that VCL users were
ignored, far from it. They just weren't being targetted until later.
As such, JP LeBlanc has stated that there will *most
likely* be a VCL bridge implemented in CBX v2.0 such that existing BCB
projects *can* be opened, edited, designed, and updated natively under the
new CBX environment using the current VCL
Can you imagine how much better it would have been if those 2 snippets
of information had been stated officially when BCBX launched? :)
--
Rob Allen
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:26:58 +0000, Rob Allen < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >
wrote:
Quote


>As such, JP LeBlanc has stated that there will *most
>likely* be a VCL bridge implemented in CBX v2.0 such that existing BCB
>projects *can* be opened, edited, designed, and updated natively under the
>new CBX environment using the current VCL
Why is it called a bridge?
Quote


Can you imagine how much better it would have been if those 2 snippets
of information had been stated officially when BCBX launched? :)
What advantage are you expecting VCL in CBX to have over BCB6? A
stable IDE?
Graeme
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

What is the difference between .Net and Win/32, other than .Net being
available across various platforms and accessible through different
languages? I work in the Windows only environment and only with BCB (and
VCL) - what should I be looking at to prepare for the upcoming changes?
Marvin Weingarden
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Well, the next version of Windows (LongHorn) is supposed to be written
entirely in .NET with a Win32 compatibility layer *on top*. Thus WIn32 apps
will be (slightly) slower than .NET ones and may not have all the .NET
features - so they will be "second class citizens".
This probably explains why borland are looking elsewhere for C++ IDEs as C++
will probably not be a major language under .NET. (Managed C++ seems to be a
bit of a 'bodge' to some people)
Whether this is a good idea or not (for MS to have done) is debatable.
Don't forget that you can continue to use BCB6 to develop Win32 apps until
MS completely remove support for Win32 so it's not a major problem - but you
probably ought to look at writing .NET apps in future.
HTH Pete
"Marvin Weingarden" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
What is the difference between .Net and Win/32, other than .Net being
available across various platforms and accessible through different
languages? I work in the Windows only environment and only with BCB (and
VCL) - what should I be looking at to prepare for the upcoming changes?
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

"Graeme Prentice" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:26:58 +0000, Rob Allen < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >
wrote:
<snip>
Why is it called a bridge?
Has anybody seen the bridge, where's that confounded bridge?
The Crunge - Led Zeppelin
Mike
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
"David Erbas-White" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:3fa978c4$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

>I just took a peek in the Delphi non-tech group to see
>what's going on.
>Lots of discussion from folks about Delphi things at BorCon.
>
>Compare that with what is being discussed in this group from
>BorCon (or even, frankly, in the CBX non-tech group).

6) If/Once implemented, the VCL bridge will allow current projects to
be brought into the CBX IDE and maintained from there instead of
needing BCB anymore. However, the VCL probably *will not* be updated
any further after that point. Win32/VCL development as it currently
stands is not being focused on anymore for long-term plans, expect
for in Delphi. In C++, it would only be a stepping stone to allow
existing projects to live on within the CBX environement using the
existing VCL until the programmer sees fit to eventually migrate
their code to one of several new future directions later on as
Longhorn approaches release.
How wonderful of Borland to discontinue any further BCB and VCL for BCB
development ! They left BCB6 in a bad state, with many bugs, and no Windows
XP support at all, and now they are saying that they will do nothing further
with it but update Delphi instead. Do they all feel good about this decision
? Are they all proud of themselves for never having to fix anything in BCB ?
But I forget. BCB may be brought into CBX at some unknown time in the
future, and, if that happens, all I have to do is pay another $600 dollars
or so for bugs to be fixed. Of course no XP support ever in the BCB VCL
because the VCL won't be updated for BCB anymore ( Delphi has had XP support
for over a year now even though BCB6 came out after Microsoft XP was
released ). How lucky I am as a BCB developer !
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Graeme Prentice wrote:
Quote

Why is it called a bridge?
Obviously because it's something meant to get you from one bank to the
other, and definitely not something to hang out on for a prolonged time.
I myself find it disquieting, but it is clear that Borland doesn't think
C++ and VCL have a common future.
Quote
What advantage are you expecting VCL in CBX to have over BCB6? A
stable IDE?
None, it'll probably be the same VCL with roughly the same (at best) IDE
support.
Clearly Borland is not intending to make the BCBX a real VCL tool, but at
most to support the VCL enough to allow BCB users to cross the river.
--
Kristofer
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Marvin Weingarden wrote:
Quote
What is the difference between .Net and Win/32, other than .Net being
available across various platforms and accessible through different
languages?
you mean, except for a universe's worth of differences, what other
differences are there? <g>.
BTW full .NET support is *not* available on multiple platforms, and
probably never will be (it's not in M$'s interest, I guess).
--
Kristofer
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Quote
But I forget. BCB may be brought into CBX at some unknown time in the
future, and, if that happens, all I have to do is pay another $600 dollars
or so for bugs to be fixed. Of course no XP support ever in the BCB VCL
because the VCL won't be updated for BCB anymore ( Delphi has had XP
support
for over a year now even though BCB6 came out after Microsoft XP was
released ). How lucky I am as a BCB developer !
It amazes me that more people don't get this.
 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Thank you for your information.
My situation is as follows:
I should start writing a complex GUI-Application for several platforms.
Since there is no form designer at present time in CBX what do you
suggest to do.
Start the development with the BCB 6.0 form designer and then port it to
CBX later. Is it possible to port it without rewriting it?
or
Start the development with CBX without form designer doing the work
manually.
Thanks
Regards
Marco
Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
"David Erbas-White" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:3fa978c4$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...


>I just took a peek in the Delphi non-tech group to see
>what's going on.
>Lots of discussion from folks about Delphi things at BorCon.
>
>Compare that with what is being discussed in this group from
>BorCon (or even, frankly, in the CBX non-tech group).


Frankly, there were surprisingly very few CBX-related sessions, whereas
there were quite a few for Delphi. However, there were a couple of CBX
session and information was released, such as the following (just to name a
few):

1) CBX is targetting more platforms and more of the overall C++ marketplace
(there is much more out there than just VCL for Windows). Win32/GUI
development is just a piece of the overall market, and with Microsoft
pushing away the native developers in favor of .Net, Borland wants to be
there to pick up the slack for the Win32 users, and then to branch out in
the other platforms where C++ is in high demand (Unix, mobile, etc) as well.
As such...

2) ... In its first release, CBX was NOT targetting VCL users at all (that
has been officially stated now). That is not to say that VCL users were
ignored, far from it. They just weren't being targetted until later.

3) There is a v2.0 release of CBX in the works, targetted for release within
the next few months.

4) CBX v2.0 will include the full featured compiler, the full featured
Designer and Object Inspector (they did demonstrate the current Designer and
it did work for a couple of different frameworks, namely wxWindows and Java
Beans for demonstration purposes).

5) Many VCL who did attend the CBX sessions did (quite verbally and
articulately) voice their concerns, frustrations, and wishes for VCL's
future with C++. As such, JP LeBlanc has stated that there will *most
likely* be a VCL bridge implemented in CBX v2.0 such that existing BCB
projects *can* be opened, edited, designed, and updated natively under the
new CBX environment using the current VCL (whether that will be BCB's or
Delphi's current VCL, they did not say - hopefully it will be the latter).

6) If/Once implemented, the VCL bridge will allow current projects to be
brought into the CBX IDE and maintained from there instead of needing BCB
anymore. However, the VCL probably *will not* be updated any further after
that point. Win32/VCL development as it currently stands is not being
focused on anymore for long-term plans, expect for in Delphi. In C++, it
would only be a stepping stone to allow existing projects to live on within
the CBX environement using the existing VCL until the programmer sees fit to
eventually migrate their code to one of several new future directions later
on as Longhorn approaches release. Namely, either re-write the code to use
the wxWindows framework for cross-platforms, or else re-write the code to
Managed C++ for .NET (which CBX will eventually support directly, possibly
with VCL.Net from Delphi v8) in order to continue with Windows-only
development. Microsoft is really pushing Windows developers to .Net, and
Borland is following along with that strategy. Borland does recognize that
Win32 is not dead yet, and that Longhorn (the next version of Windows) is
several years away, and that current applications need to be maintained.
Thus the VCL bridge will probably be included in the meantime to keep things
rolling until then.

7) ActiveX/COM and other existing BCB technologies will probably be
introduced into CBX later on as well (and yes, they will probably get new
updates for fixes to existing problems and such, at least at first).

8) TELL BORLAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT/NEED IN CBX AND WHY!!!!!! Send an
email to XXXX@XXXXX.COM and make your voices heard!

I didn't write down any specific notes while I was there, this is coming
from memory, so I may be a little off in a couple of details. I'm sure
others will step in with corrections/elaborations.


Gambit


 

Re:It's Wednesday, and...

Quote
Delphi has had XP support for over a year now
(for what i know) only partially - mostly for native controls like TButton.
Controls, where VCL (not OS) do the drawing (e.g. TStringGrid), still not XP-ed.