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Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW

I've had it...  For years I've tried to support Borland, and in many
cases causing stress with clients over the use of Borland on their
projects etc.  So Borland releases BCB and I think 'At last, who could
argue with this?'

And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
(like Delphi).  How in the world can they justify charging me the same
price for an upgrade from BCB as an upgrade from say VB 5?  Hell, I can
take the hint guys, see you later.

Well enough is enough.  I've just purchased the full MS suite, and
Borland can bite me.

So, if anyone wants this BCB ver 1. with full docs, make me an offer,
high bidder gets it.

I think if many of us are honest, it's clear that Borland isn't any
easier, and in some cases MORE difficult to deal with than MicroSoft.

screw'em.  And with this attitude it doesn't matter anyway, they'll never
be anything but a wannabe company picking up broken seashells on the
backwater shores of the real market.

So, what's your bid?

(Please reply by email to bid - wayne.sheppardNOS...@technologist.com)

 

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Ya know, a well-stated argument can do wonders to influence people. Your
moronic rambling, OTOH, is easily discarded.

--
Kent (TeamB and TurboPower Software)
-----------------------------------------------------
BCB Solutions Web Page - http://www.turbopower.com/bcb

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Quote
>Well enough is enough.  I've just purchased the full MS suite, and
>Borland can bite me.

You are moveing to VB over Delphi or BCB!!?! Well, at least we don't have to
wonder about your IQ.

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Quote
> I've had it...  For years I've tried to support Borland, and in many
> cases causing stress with clients over the use of Borland on their
> projects etc.  So Borland releases BCB and I think 'At last, who could
> argue with this?'

Apparently you.

Quote
> And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
> nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
> to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
> (like Delphi).

The first thing??  Its been a full year!  And besides, nobody is twisting
your arm to get the new version.  It's a LOT more than just an upgrade.  It
is so much more that it really is a new product.  It comes with TASM, and
new components, and a vastly superior de{*word*81}, and tons of new things that
are wonderful.

Quote
> How in the world can they justify charging me the same
> price for an upgrade from BCB as an upgrade from say VB 5?  Hell, I can
> take the hint guys, see you later.

How often does Ford give you a 75% break when you "upgrade" your Ranger
from 1997 to a 1998?  How about when you upgrade a hammer?  Does Sears give
you a discount on a new hammer because your old one was a Craftsman?

Be realistic here.  Patches are free.  Upgrades are not.  Microsoft is no
different.
Just be prepared to pay to upgrade your MS suite.  And don't have a cardiac
when it happens.

Quote
> Well enough is enough.  I've just purchased the full MS suite, and
> Borland can bite me.

Good for you.  You must be proud of your new purchase, and I wish you well
with it.  But with an attitude like that, I wouldn't hire you.

Quote
> So, if anyone wants this BCB ver 1. with full docs, make me an offer,
> high bidder gets it.

Let me get this straight:  Because Borland comes out with a new version of
BCB, you feel you must get rid of your old one and switch tool vendors?????
 Am I hearing you correctly?  And, please be honest, how much did you spend
on your MS suite?  Probably more than the upgrade.  

Quote
> I think if many of us are honest, it's clear that Borland isn't any
> easier, and in some cases MORE difficult to deal with than MicroSoft.

On what evidence do you base this assertion?

Quote
> screw'em.  And with this attitude it doesn't matter anyway, they'll never
> be anything but a wannabe company picking up broken seashells on the
> backwater shores of the real market.

Sounds to me like you are someone wanting something for nothing, and run
around sniveling like a child when you don't get it.  

Quote
> So, what's your bid?

Sorry, I've already got 1.0, and 3.0 is soon to follow.

Chris

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


spoken like a sheep

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Quote
Wayne Sheppard wrote in message ...
>And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
>nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
>to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
>(like Delphi).

I've got some bad news. MS charges for version upgrades too.

Jim

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Quote
Wayne Sheppard wrote:

> And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
> nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
> to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
> (like Delphi).  

Nobody is trying to "screw" you. Your contention that C++Builder1 was
not a real product is not correct. C++Builder1 was a real release of a
RAD IDE for C++. C++Builder3 is the next version of C++Builder, not an
upgrade.

Quote
> How in the world can they justify charging me the same
> price for an upgrade from BCB as an upgrade from say VB 5?  Hell, I can
> take the hint guys, see you later.

The grid at http://www.borland.com/bcppbuilder/ordering/ says that the
upgrade price is $269.99, and that there is a $50 rebate coupon in the
box for owners of Borland products. That sounds like an upgrade from
C++Builder1 is $50 cheaper than an upgrade from VB5.

Ben
--
Online Forum Sysop
Borland Electronic Marketing
bmatter...@corp.borland.com

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Wayne, while I have some problems with BCB3 (technical in nature with
respect to moving a large project from BCB1 to BCB3 with 5 third party
componenet libraries and a large inhouse developed custom component
library) I do not have a problem with the pricing of the upgrade. In my
view BCB1 was way under priced. Comparied to other systems (one charging
$2400 per "developer seat"), it had more function, easy of use, and
productivity than any other development environment that I know of on a
Windows platform. Running a small ISV company which has been sucessful
in the OS/2 area and is now moving into Win95/NT, I would venture to say
that BCB1 Prof should have been priced at $500+ based on competitive
products we reviewed before going with BCB1 for Win95/NT development.
BCB3 Prof's SLP makes much more sense at about $700. An upgrade price of
$269 from BCB1 or competitive product to BCB3 is more than resonable.
Hopefully it will bring in the revenue to keep Borland shipping great
development tools. My guess is your "level of expectation" with respect
to price was miss set by the extra low BCB1 price.

Quote
Wayne Sheppard wrote:

> I've had it...  For years I've tried to support Borland, and in many
> cases causing stress with clients over the use of Borland on their
> projects etc.  So Borland releases BCB and I think 'At last, who could
> argue with this?'

> And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
> nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
> to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
> (like Delphi).  How in the world can they justify charging me the same
> price for an upgrade from BCB as an upgrade from say VB 5?  Hell, I can
> take the hint guys, see you later.

> Well enough is enough.  I've just purchased the full MS suite, and
> Borland can bite me.

> So, if anyone wants this BCB ver 1. with full docs, make me an offer,
> high bidder gets it.

> I think if many of us are honest, it's clear that Borland isn't any
> easier, and in some cases MORE difficult to deal with than MicroSoft.

> screw'em.  And with this attitude it doesn't matter anyway, they'll never
> be anything but a wannabe company picking up broken seashells on the
> backwater shores of the real market.

> So, what's your bid?

> (Please reply by email to bid - wayne.sheppardNOS...@technologist.com)

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


$250 for a compiler upgrade seems like a very fair price to me.  That works
out to about $1 a day until BCB 4 ships about a year from now.

Richard

Quote
Ben Matterson (Borland) wrote:
> Wayne Sheppard wrote:

> > And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
> > nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
> > to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
> > (like Delphi).

> Nobody is trying to "screw" you. Your contention that C++Builder1 was
> not a real product is not correct. C++Builder1 was a real release of a
> RAD IDE for C++. C++Builder3 is the next version of C++Builder, not an
> upgrade.

> > How in the world can they justify charging me the same
> > price for an upgrade from BCB as an upgrade from say VB 5?  Hell, I can
> > take the hint guys, see you later.

> The grid at http://www.borland.com/bcppbuilder/ordering/ says that the
> upgrade price is $269.99, and that there is a $50 rebate coupon in the
> box for owners of Borland products. That sounds like an upgrade from
> C++Builder1 is $50 cheaper than an upgrade from VB5.

> Ben
> --
> Online Forum Sysop
> Borland Electronic Marketing
> bmatter...@corp.borland.com

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Hello, my name is Tad Pecorak, a full time student, part time accountant,
and full time broke :)
I will not lie, I am a {*word*249}ager, perhaps outstepping my bounds participating
in here, but I have been around computers for the majority of my life.  I
was hired between my Junior and Senior years in High School to do some
database work for a small Software company that operates out my home city.
It ended up  that I began to write little pieces of software for small tasks
performed over the network, and other small things.  Then I undertook a
larger job, involving the restriction of files within the Installable File
System of windows 95.  But thats another story to be told another place.
    When I went with my supervisor to purchase a development product, we
chose BC++B because I was already familiar with Delphi/Pascal and I was
always open to learning a new language on the fly.  We had sticker shock,
initially, to tell you the truth, because we had to use personal funds; the
cost couldn't be subsidized by the company, due to bureaucratic bull {*word*99}
involving the mother company overseas.  My supervisor, happinging to be a
{*word*249}ager as well, came up with the money and bought both Standard, and
Proffessional editions of BCB (version 1).  Well, this was this past summer.
Since then, I have had to leave the company, due to and overload in my class
schedule, and immense amounts of work when I come home.
    This year, for the third straight year, my school system requires every
high school senior to complete something called a "Senior Exit Project"
which means, if you don't pass it, you don't get your diploma.  For my
senior exit project, I chose to write my paper on Internet Censorship (a hot
topic these days)  and for my product (which has to accompany the paper)  I
have written a Web browser, using, yes... you guessed it, BCB.
Unfortunately, I think I am going to have to upgrade, seeing how the
Internet ActiveX components that ship with v1 are hardly standard, (and
plus, I cant get the project to even link).
    I want to briefly state my present economic status.  I work as a Part
time accountant at a local grocery store chain, making just barely over
minimum wage, and only about 20 hours a week.  My bank account, presently
has exactly:  $114.46 in it.  I am not trying to evoke and kind of pity,
just stating that I can sympathize with the gentleman who originally started
this thread.  If Borland wants to release a new version, that is great, and
I fully realize that is it perfectly fair for them to charge a upgrade
price.  What I think, which may or may not mean a thing to you, is that
Borland could have released a patch to make up for the inadequacies in the
original product, so those of us that are indefinitely stuck with the
original, can at least make competitive, complete software solutions.
    Oh, one last thing.  You may be thinking "What kind of Software company
hires {*word*249}agers for important positions?"  I am not sure, all I know is that
Nationsbank, Bank of England, every Motor Vehicle Company and the Department
of Defense think that the company is good enough.  :)
    Thank you,
        Tad Pecorak
BTW: I don't think my economic status will improve over the next four years.
I think Georgia Tech will rob me for all im worth :)

Quote
landeck wrote in message <34F5F861.3...@ibm.net>...
>Wayne, while I have some problems with BCB3 (technical in nature with
>respect to moving a large project from BCB1 to BCB3 with 5 third party
>componenet libraries and a large inhouse developed custom component
>library) I do not have a problem with the pricing of the upgrade. In my
>view BCB1 was way under priced. Comparied to other systems (one charging
>$2400 per "developer seat"), it had more function, easy of use, and
>productivity than any other development environment that I know of on a
>Windows platform. Running a small ISV company which has been sucessful
>in the OS/2 area and is now moving into Win95/NT, I would venture to say
>that BCB1 Prof should have been priced at $500+ based on competitive
>products we reviewed before going with BCB1 for Win95/NT development.
>BCB3 Prof's SLP makes much more sense at about $700. An upgrade price of
>$269 from BCB1 or competitive product to BCB3 is more than resonable.
>Hopefully it will bring in the revenue to keep Borland shipping great
>development tools. My guess is your "level of expectation" with respect
>to price was miss set by the extra low BCB1 price.

>Wayne Sheppard wrote:

>> I've had it...  For years I've tried to support Borland, and in many
>> cases causing stress with clients over the use of Borland on their
>> projects etc.  So Borland releases BCB and I think 'At last, who could
>> argue with this?'

>> And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
>> nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
>> to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
>> (like Delphi).  How in the world can they justify charging me the same
>> price for an upgrade from BCB as an upgrade from say VB 5?  Hell, I can
>> take the hint guys, see you later.

>> Well enough is enough.  I've just purchased the full MS suite, and
>> Borland can bite me.

>> So, if anyone wants this BCB ver 1. with full docs, make me an offer,
>> high bidder gets it.

>> I think if many of us are honest, it's clear that Borland isn't any
>> easier, and in some cases MORE difficult to deal with than MicroSoft.

>> screw'em.  And with this attitude it doesn't matter anyway, they'll never
>> be anything but a wannabe company picking up broken seashells on the
>> backwater shores of the real market.

>> So, what's your bid?

>> (Please reply by email to bid - wayne.sheppardNOS...@technologist.com)

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Quote
>I've had it...  For years I've tried to support Borland, and in many
>cases causing stress with clients over the use of Borland on their
>projects etc.  So Borland releases BCB and I think 'At last, who could
>argue with this?'

>And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
>nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
>to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
>(like Delphi).  How in the world can they justify charging me the same
>price for an upgrade from BCB as an upgrade from say VB 5?  Hell, I can
>take the hint guys, see you later.

I believe that no matter what Borland charges, there is someone who thinks
its too much. My suggestion is that if you find commercial software products
too expensive you investigate shareware of freeware products such as gnu.

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Quote
Wayne Sheppard wrote:

> And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
> nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product (read early supporters)
> to the 'real' product that is competitive with other featured products
> (like Delphi).  How in the world can they justify charging me the same
> price for an upgrade from BCB as an upgrade from say VB 5?  Hell, I can
> take the hint guys, see you later.

1) BCB 1.0 was at about the same level that Delphi 1.0 was at when it
was released. In fact BCB was probably better. So I don't see your
complaint there.
2) As for the price to upgrade. It cost me approximately $230 as a
previous Borland customer. I don't believe that I can upgrade to
VB 5 for that.

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Quote
Wayne Sheppard wrote:

> And the first thing Borland does is{*word*222}(or try to) us all with this
> nutty 'upgrade' cost to move from a ver.1 product
> ...
> Well enough is enough.  I've just purchased the full MS suite, and
> Borland can bite me.

Oh yeah, now you'll get free upgrades. Just like the VC4.2 users who all
got VC 5.0 at no charge (neglecting the small $300 upgrade fee).

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


Quote
Maugan_Ra wrote:

> Hello, my name is Tad Pecorak, a full time student, part time accountant,
> and full time broke :)
> ...
> My bank account, presently
> has exactly:  $114.46 in it.  I am not trying to evoke and kind of pity,
> just stating that I can sympathize with the gentleman who originally started
> this thread.  If Borland wants to release a new version, that is great, and
> I fully realize that is it perfectly fair for them to charge a upgrade
> price.  What I think, which may or may not mean a thing to you, is that
> Borland could have released a patch to make up for the inadequacies in the
> original product, so those of us that are indefinitely stuck with the
> original, can at least make competitive, complete software solutions.

First of all, Borland released two patches to BCB 1.0, plus patches to
the help system. Secondly, you could purchase the professional version
of BCB at an educational disount. I think you can get the pro version
for less than $100.

Quote
> BTW: I don't think my economic status will improve over the next four years.
> I think Georgia Tech will rob me for all im worth :)

What a travesty. You mean to tell me that Georgia Tech doesn't offer a
75% disount for sophomores that return from their freshman year? Do you
mean to tell me that someone could transfer from the University of
Georgia and pay the same that you do? That's unfair.

Harold

PS: I'm not mocking you, just trying to prove a point.

Re:Done with Borland!! BCB for sale NOW


IBM used to lease the COBOL compiler for its S/34 minicomputers for
around $200/month in the early 80s. The POP utility to edit code was a
separate $1000 purchase. Upgrades were no problem at all -- no upgrades.

Jim

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